Site Search:
 
Get TEFL Certified & Start Your Adventure Today!
Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Overqualified, Over-aged, and Under-credentialed
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Asia Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
tttompatz



Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bluetortilla wrote:
Sorry, but you know, I really don't like this talk of being a 'cog,' 'an old dog,' and being compared to a loaf of bread on the shelf. I asked you because in previous posts you seemed a helpful and optimistic sort of person. Was I wrong?

Thanks for the info. Take care sir.


I said it would hurt. I am sorry if the euphemisms weren't to your liking.

Truth is that you, as you are well aware of, are lacking in credentials and/or certifications for higher academia or better schools and, in spite of your years of experience, if you change countries you will be starting out at the bottom again.

How long you remain there is up to you.

20 years of experience in a field does give you a level of expertise but your 30 year old boss is not going to want to compete with you. He is the boss and this is Asia.

Your trainer on your TEFL course is NOT going to want to compete with you in his classroom. You get to do it his way or fail; pick one.

Are you adaptable, then you will be successful. If you tend to the the typical mid-life career changer you will have problems adjusting to a lower rung on the ladder until you get the credentials to back up your experience and lend credence to your "expert opinion".

Then there is the last question. Can you actually justify the expense of gaining the extra credential(s) and have them pay for themselves. There is both the out of pocket costs to consider and the opportunity costs (lost revenue) as well.

Good luck to you sir. You will need a moderate supply of it if you plan to change countries and be successful. 20 years in one country and being set in one (cultural) set of ways of doing things is a lot of overhead to get over in a transition (far more than your average 23 year old newbie).

There is lots of work to be had but you won't likely be getting in at the middle or upper rungs of the ladder. Jump in, get adjusted to your new country and network. You will move up quickly.

.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ariadne



Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We get it. You're special and deserve more respect than the average poster.

For crying out loud! He spent time trying to help. Are you now going to jump on your high horse and resent being called an old dog? Seems apt really. Old dogs do often bite.

.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bluetortilla



Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 815
Location: Henan

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's fair enough thanks tttom. Yes, I do understand all of that and don't have a problem with it. I'm quite cooperative. Thanks for the nuts and bolts descriptions and the encouragement. It helps a lot, believe me.

CV's out tomorrow!

euphemisms! Smile yeah, i'd never be a good foreman...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bluetortilla



Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 815
Location: Henan

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ariadne wrote:
We get it. You're special and deserve more respect than the average poster.

For crying out loud! He spent time trying to help. Are you now going to jump on your high horse and resent being called an old dog? Seems apt really. Old dogs do often bite.

.


I am not special in any way and yes, every poster deserves respect, including you and me.

Far from being on a high horse, I live in a barn. I'm low, not high.

He has been very helpful to me and I thanked him. He knows I'm in a tough spot. If I could help anyone here I gladly would.

Have you checked the smote in your eye before jumping in here passing judgments unrelated to our discussion? Do you have any practical advice to add about getting jobs? Any advice people give here helps us all.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chezal



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you thought about applying to Japanese International Schools overseas as an English teacher.

http://www.jjs.or.id/toppage/top.html The Jakarta Japanese International school were advertising for a native teacher last month. Not sure if they have a teacher now but it's a possible avenue of work for you. That way your Japanese skills won't go to waste.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bluetortilla



Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 815
Location: Henan

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a matter yes, I am Chezai. Someone just suggested that the other day and it is indeed something I could be qualified for, and low competition too (though not so many vacancies).

Could turn out to be a good hitch!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I may add some constructive remarks, considering I've been in Japan a while now.

bluetortilla,
You say you have done some translating (and enjoy it when it is for literature), but that the work is spotty. Do you actually have a translator's license or training? If not, and if you have not been pursuing it as a FT job, that explains the spottiness. No pain, no gain.

As far as berating tttompatz's labels of cog and old dog, lighten up. You yourself say you are old, and you even admitted earlier that you are suited only for the entry level work. So, why come down hard on him for stating (with a caveat, no less) the obvious. He gave you a professional and well-written kick in the pants at your own request. Follow it.

As for the MA, you are still hemming and hawing over whether to get one, it seems. This is becoming less surprising and more frustrating. What is it you don't get? To advance beyond where you are now, outside or inside Japan, you are going to need one. You already know the story about needing it for uni work in Japan. (FWIW, I know a guy who just finished his PhD by distance learning, and he is in his mid 50s. So, who is too old?)

You wrote about having read millions of publications. I don't recall if you have written any yourself. If not, that will also be a barrier in many places. You don't have to spend money to write, like you would to study for a master's. Take that as helpful advice.

As always, best of luck.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
steki47



Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: BFE Inaka

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blue Tortilla,
I have read your threads here and there and do have some of the same concerns about my own future.
Quick run-down:
4 years at Nova (including 3 years as a trainer/manager)
1 year ran own school (basically rented a room at a community center and had a bunch of private students I recruited from the ashes of Nova)
1 year at small eikaiwa (crazy place that I have complained about on ESL)
1 year at juku (designed my own curriculum)
Current job-JHS ALT through dispatch company

I finally started a distance edu MS ESL education degree. At Nova I figured I didn't need a graduate degree and then when Nova when belly up I spent a couple of years recovering (mentally/financially). Now I am 39 and still in an entry-level teaching job and just started a graduate degree.

My frustration comes from the fact that my past experience means nothing towards my next job (next to nothing) and I am competing with 23 year old fresh out of uni kids.

No point in getting too bummed about it, especially considering I made most of the decisions that put me in this situation.

Am trying to be optimistic about the future and hope the graduate degree (plus future research) will help me get a better gig. Uni or private high school would be nice.

Anyway, best of luck to you!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ariadne



Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My remarks were related to the manner of discussion, so yes, related. Lots of folks come to Dave's asking for advice and then get cranky when they get advice they don't like. It gets old. And don't pretend you didn't get cranky.

I think the word you had in mind was 'mote', not 'smote'.

You could easily get a job at a uni in China. Many schools give the FTs free rein (within certain guidelines) to plan their classes. Find yourself a nice spot with low hours and use the free time to pursue a graduate degree on-line.

.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bluetortilla



Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 815
Location: Henan

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

steki47 wrote:
Blue Tortilla,
I have read your threads here and there and do have some of the same concerns about my own future.
Quick run-down:
4 years at Nova (including 3 years as a trainer/manager)
1 year ran own school (basically rented a room at a community center and had a bunch of private students I recruited from the ashes of Nova)
1 year at small eikaiwa (crazy place that I have complained about on ESL)
1 year at juku (designed my own curriculum)
Current job-JHS ALT through dispatch company

I finally started a distance edu MS ESL education degree. At Nova I figured I didn't need a graduate degree and then when Nova when belly up I spent a couple of years recovering (mentally/financially). Now I am 39 and still in an entry-level teaching job and just started a graduate degree.

My frustration comes from the fact that my past experience means nothing towards my next job (next to nothing) and I am competing with 23 year old fresh out of uni kids.

No point in getting too bummed about it, especially considering I made most of the decisions that put me in this situation.

Am trying to be optimistic about the future and hope the graduate degree (plus future research) will help me get a better gig. Uni or private high school would be nice.

Anyway, best of luck to you!


Yes, I know EXACTLY what you are talking about, only I'm nearly ten years older. You're on the right track with the MA. There will be good gigs to be had at universities when you're done, and you're free to move on as well. Can't wait to start mine! Don't worry about being stuck. It happens to all of us without an MA, and your own school can give one a very false sense of security. Most owners are too busy to get MA's.

Good luck to you too. Sounds like you're doing fine. Hunker down, and do the ALT thing. It's demeaning, I know, but just temporary. Nobody's gonna hit you and you can study during breaks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bluetortilla



Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 815
Location: Henan

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ariadne wrote:
My remarks were related to the manner of discussion, so yes, related. Lots of folks come to Dave's asking for advice and then get cranky when they get advice they don't like. It gets old. And don't pretend you didn't get cranky.

I think the word you had in mind was 'mote', not 'smote'.

You could easily get a job at a uni in China. Many schools give the FTs free rein (within certain guidelines) to plan their classes. Find yourself a nice spot with low hours and use the free time to pursue a graduate degree on-line.

.


Sorry Ariadne. I'm human like everybody else and going through scary times. I'm pretty candid and do step on toes at times. That's what keeps the world in balance I guess. I was reacting to what I perceived as being demeaning comments, not answers I didn't want to hear. There's a big difference. I have no grudges whatsoever to the gentleman who gave me advice. He's a great guy and has bent over backwards to help me. I appreciate it.

And I agree. We're hear to discuss pleasantly and most of all to help each other. It's a great forum.

Thanks for the mote correction. Ha! Smote comes from smite. I guess I was smitten. There was also mote in my eye no doubt.

I'm checking out China as well, thanks. It could be my go-between place. I heard I might be late for this season though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
steki47



Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: BFE Inaka

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bluetortilla wrote:

your own school can give one a very false sense of security. Most owners are too busy to get MA's.


I can imagine that a lot of school owners may not want to do an MA. After all, they started their own business to avoid working for somebody else. Maybe just my limited second-hand experience. In any case, running your own school opens up a world of earning potential but also a massive world of headaches and long, long days.

Some of us don't want that. I would like more holiday to travel and maybe the opportunity to work in a different town or country ( a vague dream at this point).

For me, ALT work is dirt easy. No major complaints. A slight cut in salary, but long holidays and lots of downtime for studying at work.

(PS-About the MA/MS-I am having fun studying part-time. The inner geek in me is very happy.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bluetortilla



Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 815
Location: Henan

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

steki47 wrote:

I can imagine that a lot of school owners may not want to do an MA. After all, they started their own business to avoid working for somebody else. Maybe just my limited second-hand experience. In any case, running your own school opens up a world of earning potential but also a massive world of headaches and long, long days.

Some of us don't want that. I would like more holiday to travel and maybe the opportunity to work in a different town or country ( a vague dream at this point).

For me, ALT work is dirt easy. No major complaints. A slight cut in salary, but long holidays and lots of downtime for studying at work.

(PS-About the MA/MS-I am having fun studying part-time. The inner geek in me is very happy.)


Yeah, I can just envision the whole scene. I even feel a bit envious.

Running a school is tough but a lot of fun and it has great job satisfaction. The drawbacks are that you are super busy. Still, I also learned tons of job skills like computer graphics and accounting that I wouldn't have learned otherwise. Unfortunately, in the long run it's even harder than a mom and pop because you can't do it when your old. You can hire teachers but then you have no profit. You could start a chain, but that's a whole other world that I've seen few foreigners successful in. Divorce ended mine!

Still, I have to say it was definitely worth it. It was a great experience, though I wouldn't want to do it now.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tudor



Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 339

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
http://www.jjs.or.id/toppage/top.html The Jakarta Japanese International school were advertising for a native teacher last month. Not sure if they have a teacher now but it's a possible avenue of work for you. That way your Japanese skills won't go to waste.


This position was filled last week. Having said that, I'm sure they'll advertise again in the future.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bluetortilla



Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 815
Location: Henan

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tudor wrote:
Quote:
http://www.jjs.or.id/toppage/top.html The Jakarta Japanese International school were advertising for a native teacher last month. Not sure if they have a teacher now but it's a possible avenue of work for you. That way your Japanese skills won't go to waste.


This position was filled last week. Having said that, I'm sure they'll advertise again in the future.


This looks like a good link.

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E4%BA%BA%E5%AD%A6%E6%A0%A1#.E3.82.A2.E3.82.B8.E3.82.A2

アジア is halfway down the page and I found the Jakarta school right away. The odd thing is that it's linked as

日本人学校 rather than 日本国際学校. I'll find out tomorrow.

Working with Japanese abroad sounds like fun.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Asia Forum All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Teaching Jobs in China
Teaching Jobs in China