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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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 Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Win Some Lose Some,
"So, is KSA a less enjoyable place to live and teach than Oman?"
If you enter this into the contest for the most rhetorical question of the year, I'd say you have a winner.
But heck, I'll answer it anyway: YES!!!!!!!!!
Regards,
John |
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Win Some Lose Some
Joined: 06 Sep 2011
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| johnslat wrote: |
Dear Win Some Lose Some,
"So, is KSA a less enjoyable place to live and teach than Oman?"
If you enter this into the contest for the most rhetorical question of the year, I'd say you have a winner.
But heck, I'll answer it anyway: YES!!!!!!!!!
Regards,
John |
Why is that, John? And, thanks in advance for getting me up to speed on this issue. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Win Some Lose Some,
Saudi is a much more "restrictive" society (especially for women, but even for males.) There is also, in most of the Kingdom, more xenophobia towards foreigners.
Omanis, in my experience, are more outgoing, more friendly, more hospitable.
The country itself is also, in my opinion, generally more attractive than most of Saudi.
Lots of "generalizations" there - but your question invites - maybe demands - such responses.
Regards,
John
Last edited by johnslat on Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mr Gavoni
Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| I concur with John, and should like to add a couple of practical facts. In Oman you can go to the bar and consume alcohol on the premises, and when you get a licence, you can even buy it in some shops and take it home. More importantly, in Oman (especially the major cities) you can actually see women and interact with them to a certain degree (in Saudi, I was told that there are women and I took their word...). Oman is one of the most liberal countries in the Gulf, and certainly the friendliest. |
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Win Some Lose Some
Joined: 06 Sep 2011
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr Gavoni wrote: |
. . . Oman is one of the most liberal countries in the Gulf, and certainly the friendliest. |
From what I've read about Oman, it seems that the common folk actually like their ruler rather than just fear him. I also read that unlike the other GCC countries, Oman has long had cordial relations with Iran. I expect maybe that had something to do with Oman's role in getting those hikers freed from Iranian prison recently. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Win Some Lose Some,
Unfortunately, Oman and all the other Middle Eastern countries follow the iron-clad rule of EFL:
The nicer the place, the lower the salary (and vice versa.)
Regards,
John |
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Win Some Lose Some
Joined: 06 Sep 2011
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| johnslat wrote: |
Dear Win Some Lose Some,
Unfortunately, Oman and all the other Middle Eastern countries follow the iron-clad rule of EFL:
The nicer the place, the lower the salary (and vice versa.)
Regards,
John |
I think that concept is called "hardship pay." |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Win Some Lose Some wrote: |
| From what I've read about Oman, it seems that the common folk actually like their ruler rather than just fear him. I also read that unlike the other GCC countries, Oman has long had cordial relations with Iran. I expect maybe that had something to do with Oman's role in getting those hikers freed from Iranian prison recently. |
I don't believe that anyone "fears" Sultan Qaboos. There is almost universal respect for him. Any grousing... and there naturally is some... is very low-key... and mostly concerns how the country's resources and income is spent.
Many of those given citizenship after Sultan Qaboos took power are Irani (and Pakistani) families that have long been a part of the trade structure of Oman. So Oman's ties to Iran are long and strong. I believe that the Sultan negotiated and paid the money to get all three of these young people out of Iran.
VS |
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Mr Gavoni
Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:24 am Post subject: |
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| Win Some Lose Some wrote: |
| From what I've read about Oman, it seems that the common folk actually like their ruler rather than just fear him. |
Very true - they adore him.
Having said this, in no Gulf country do the citizens "fear" their rulers (perhaps just a bit in Bahrain, now). |
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Win Some Lose Some
Joined: 06 Sep 2011
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:36 am Post subject: |
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| Mr Gavoni wrote: |
| Win Some Lose Some wrote: |
| From what I've read about Oman, it seems that the common folk actually like their ruler rather than just fear him. |
Very true - they adore him.
Having said this, in no Gulf country do the citizens "fear" their rulers (perhaps just a bit in Bahrain, now). |
Chop Chop Square in another part of the peninsula? |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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I'd say that most of the citizens probably support the extreme punishments. And those that fear this process would be fearing the religious process, not the King.
VS |
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StampLover
Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 83
Location: Salalah, Oman
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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I know you aren't talking about Oman in regards to severe punishment.
Sounds hard to believe but I have a student whose father was sentenced to death for spying. He "pleaded" with SQ and it was reduced to 5 years.
I would sure rather be caught stealing a candy bar here in Oman over KSA. |
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RobertinOman
Joined: 31 Jul 2010
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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I spend a lot of time in Saudi Arabia. The overwhelming majority of Saudis love the current king. He is called Father Abdulla by ordinary Saudis.
He is extremely generous to the poorest class of Saudis and he leads the chants at the soccer games.
Muslim expats from the poorest countries do not benefit. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:02 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
I spend a lot of time in Saudi Arabia. The overwhelming majority of Saudis love the current king. He is called Father Abdulla by ordinary Saudis.
He is extremely generous to the poorest class of Saudis and he leads the chants at the soccer games.
Muslim expats from the poorest countries do not benefit. |
I agree... and I have to say that I like and respect both King Abdullah and Sultan Qaboos. (and the late Sheikh Zayed too)
| Quote: |
I know you aren't talking about Oman in regards to severe punishment.
Sounds hard to believe but I have a student whose father was sentenced to death for spying. He "pleaded" with SQ and it was reduced to 5 years. |
In Oman, there is no beheading, but there are hangings. There is an opposite story. There was the murder of a money changer by an influential Sheikh and his son (or was it sons?). Anyway the Sheikh worked in the royal palace and was using his wasta first to stop the trial. The Sultan insisted the trial go forward and they were found guilty. The guilty parties were certain that their sentences would be commuted (as were many in the public). Then to the surprise of everyone, the order came from the Sultan to hang 'em... now...
And, that was the end of that. But, it was not done publicly.
VS |
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Mr Gavoni
Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| I would sure rather be caught stealing a candy bar here in Oman over KSA. |
Many kinds of felonies carry harsh punishments everywhere in the Gulf (theoretically, in Oman, jumping the lights means 48 hours in the cooler); but in practice, and especially if the transgression doesn't publicly and visibly offend society, the locals get little more than a slap on the wrist.
In Saudi, possession and consumption of drugs is punishable by beheading, but ultimately the only people who get executed are big-time dealers and smugglers. One of my students in Jubail used to smoke spliffs in the college playground, apart from the others, and I knew of others who were used to driving with funny cigarettes between their lips and gallons of home-made wine in the trunk. The principle is always the same: whatever you do, just don't rub it in people's faces and all's cool.
Unfortunately, this policy applies to most institutions of higher education too, so the students who are caught cheating are repeatedly forgiven, those who fail are given yet another chance, and so on, often making a mockery of the whole system. The Arab passion for an immaculate image keeps them from getting one of the most important concepts of jurisprudence: it is the certainty of punishment, not its severity, that achieves the preventive effect. |
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