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Mr_Monkey
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 661
Location: Kyuuuuuushuuuuuuu
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 Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting post, Rooster.
I don't have time to comment in-depth (I've been very busy the last few days and it ain't stopping)
The direct approach espoused in the CELTA may have as much a practical rationale for it as theoretical:
- How can the assessors adequately assess the linguistic descriptions if they don't understand the descriptions?
I agree with your point regarding the CELTA's cookie-cutter mentality; it's an industrial qualification with its roots in late industrial production-line thinking, designed to churn out high volumes of graduates with basic competences. I view it as similar to a driver's license - passing doesn't make you a good driver, but shows (to some degree at least) that the holder isn't going to cause a multi-car pile-up at the next junction. |
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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Rooster_2006 wrote: |
| I have studied Korean, Japanese, and Chinese all in a university environment, and never have any of my Korean/Japanese/Chinese teachers expected me to learn in all L2 from the very beginning, and I think it's unreasonable for English learners to be expected to do this, either. This is a major beef I have with CELTA. |
I formally studied Spanish and German from the beginning of secondary school until the end of uni in the UK. I still remember how my very first teachers taught our classes in only the target language initially. We also had a textbook that was completely in Spanish (I can't remember if we had a textbook for German in the beginning). It must have been at least a term before we realised that the teachers (both native speakers of the languages they taught) could speak English.. might seem obvious now, but it wasn't to a class of 11/12 year olds 
And at uni, all non-ab initio students had pratically all of their language classes held in the target language. But even ab initio students had a lot of their beginning classes taught soley in the target language. Even for Japanese, we were handed Japanese editions of Minna no Nihongo (and not the romaaji version either that I only found out existed this summer) and were not even informed of the accompanying book of grammar explanations and vocab translations in English. In fact, I only found out about it when I was given the German version whilst studying Japanese at uni in Austria 1 1/2 years later.
Having experienced it, I can appreciate that learning in the target language has its advantages and flaws over learning in the L1.
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I have tried time and again trying to show (not tell) my students about the past tense using only English. It's darn near impossible. I use time lines, act it out, etc. and they just don't get it. You know what works for teaching students the past tense? SHOWING THEM THE PAST TENSE IN JAPANESE SIDE-BY-SIDE WITH THE ENGLISH PAST TENSE.
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This also causes problems because the students tend to develop a tendency to perform direct translations of their past tense usage into English.
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| My bosses, although tending to frown upon my use of a little bit of L2 in the beginning, usually come around when they witness firsthand the impossibility of teaching abstract concepts (like "like" versus "want") to students in all L2. |
Really? I remember how my Spanish teacher did this:
She showed us her favorite food and told us how much she liked it but that she didn't want to eat it right then because she wasn't hungry. She then showed us a series of things (that we found absolutely hilarious but that would have shocked our parents) that she liked and that she either wanted or didn't want at that moment, then used a discussion about Christmas presents to make sure we understood give us the chance to practice using like and want. For example: I like animals. My favourite animals are dogs. I want a dog for christmas.
I don't disagree that there are flaws to the CELTA mentality as you described. But I do think that there are some merits to using some teaching only in the target language some of the time as opposed to teaching the language through the L1. |
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Sour Grape
Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 241
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:40 am Post subject: Re: CELTA Japan |
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| Landon wrote: |
| I am having a hard time finding CELTA offered in Japan. Are there schools that offer the CELTA programme in Japan? Is a CELTA even prized to teach English in Japan? |
The British Council used to offer it. I don't know if they still do. |
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Mr_Monkey
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 661
Location: Kyuuuuuushuuuuuuu
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:49 am Post subject: |
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Language Resources in Kobe is the only CELTA centre in Japan.
The course can be done online now, but there are still the twin issues of finding suitably qualified teachers to observe and finding an appropriately qualified observer to assess the teaching practice. |
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Cool Teacher
Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 930
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| rxk22 wrote: |
| It's Scary! wrote: |
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| The fact that the vast majority of eikaiwa don't know anything only makes a CELTA holder better-placed to teach than the vast majority... |
With all due respect Mr. Monkey, you have, indeed, proven my thesis. That being the majority of Eikaiwa "workers" are unlicensed and non-qualified and that a CELTA-holder is relatively highly-qualified. To those who care to chime in, look around you first and consider your "colleagues". How many are there for the "good times" that Japan can afford?
The minimum qualification to teach at an Eikaiwa in Japan is a college degree, or in case you come from an economic basket case of a country that has a "working visa" agreement, a high school diploma.
It's the reality on the ground! |
Indeed, at my last eikaiwa, though we had some decent teachers, a lot were pretty iffy as people go. Had a pedophile, a drunk, who the JT had to drag back to the school after the lunch break, and other such gems.
i think the ELT industry is split, not in half, but in two strata, one where people take teaching seriously, and the other who don't give a poop, or have some seriously terrible English. |
Whoah! You had a pedophile at the school OMG did you report them to the police or idd you only discover later on???  |
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haopengyou
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 197
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| CELTA offered online? Are you sure this is really a CELTA course? I sent an email to the CELTA folks in England a month or so ago and they said that CELTA training was not available online anywhere. There are a lot of sheister schools that try to make their program look like CELTA. |
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Mr_Monkey
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 661
Location: Kyuuuuuushuuuuuuu
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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Cambridge CELTA online. However, there are no centres offering the online course in Japan.
I guess you could take a short holiday in Australia and do the practicum there, if the provider was willing to accommodate you. |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Cool Teacher"][quote="rxk22"]
| It's Scary! wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The fact that the vast majority of eikaiwa don't know anything only makes a CELTA holder better-placed to teach than the vast majority... |
Whoah! You had a pedophile at the school OMG did you report them to the police or idd you only discover later on??? |
I wasn't with the company at the time. But from what I heard he was sketchy, and would do his best to look at little girls' undies. This is also from reliable people. The eikaiwa being as bad as it was, did nothing. fortunately there is a JT there with the FT, otherwise, bad things could have happened.
But that company, seiha, has a long list of questionable people who have worked for it, far more % wise than other companies. |
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haopengyou
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 197
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:54 am Post subject: |
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| If you are in Japan and don't want to travel so far, there is an Australian school that will sponsor a CELTA course in Shanghai in January. Google and you can find it. |
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Mr_Monkey
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 661
Location: Kyuuuuuushuuuuuuu
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| haopengyou wrote: |
| If you are in Japan and don't want to travel so far, there is an Australian school that will sponsor a CELTA course in Shanghai in January. Google and you can find it. |
You could, alternatively, take it in Japan... |
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nightsintodreams
Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 558
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| I think the cheapest way to do a CELTA, if you can take a month off during August, is to go to Tailand or Vietnam. It costs about 1300 dollars for the full time course. Just google "Tailand CELTA" and three different companies with similar prices will appear. |
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haopengyou
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 197
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:06 am Post subject: |
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| I just called two centers that (will) offer the online CELTA. It is not set up to do a couple of weeks online and then do a couple of weeks of intensive on site training. It is set up to do a few lessons online, than have an onsite course, do a few lessons online, then have an online course. It would be EXTREMELY expensive to complete CELTA this way if you are faced with flying to Australia 8 times or more to get it. The person that I talked so said that (as far as she knows) it is the only model that Cambridge has authorized. |
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Cool Teacher
Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 930
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| nightsintodreams wrote: |
| I think the cheapest way to do a CELTA, if you can take a month off during August, is to go to Tailand or Vietnam. It costs about 1300 dollars for the full time course. Just google "Tailand CELTA" and three different companies with similar prices will appear. |
Or Google "Thailand CELTA"!!  |
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