Job Discussion Forums

[esbam2002]

I would say that it depends on the school, and the age of the students, as well as the Vietnamese in question. At IPS my grade 5, 4, and 3 students were very creative, communicative about their ideas and opinions. They were full of curiosity and imagination. They never stuck me as being "controlled" beyond the typical word for word from the book answers. Children seem to be normal children here with imagination. Just watch them as they create the games that they play.

Adults though tend to be the worst here. I mean the 20 and older group. Their thoughts are more limited and very few have the ability to think, or give any real opinion I find. I have some I tell them to write a paper on anything that want, and they stare dumbfounded at the paper for as long as 30 minutes, because I have not told them what to write, how to write, or anything. I currently have adults that have a limited ability for outside thought, though not all. I can say as well that I have had some very good adults too that have been able to think and rationalize, and it was an adult student that helped me evolve as a teacher when I first started 3 years ago.

In conclusion I disagree that you can made a blanket comment about the thoughts and abilities of Vietnamese people. Sure there is a gap in kids vs adults here, but one that must look on a individual level, not that as a whole. The real problem though that I find is not that they can't be creative, think, or have an opinion, but rather getting them to share that opinion. I find that they would rather conform to what they think the group as a whole wants, rather than stand out, and very few will speak an idea, or thought, out of fear of their image and what someone will think of them. I think once Vietnamese loose this view, that you will see much more advancement and improvement in the nation as a whole. I could also ask how many foreign teachers here challenge their students to think, and express opinions in the classroom vs how many play games and have fun?

[Jbhughes]

What Mad Hatter says is both witty and true!

An old student wandered into the school today. I was waiting near the reception for some reason and we greeted. He said "your belly big." After coming down from my elation at his immense ability with his second tongue, I smiled and tried to utter as earnestly as possible "thank you," just to see if he would note something might somehow be awry or even sarcastic with my reply. He smiled back, seemingly satisfied with my newfound awareness of my paunch.


Thinking among adults can be limited.
I had to give someone my telephone number today. I don't know my number, so I asked my - other Asian - companion to tell me my number. They did, in English, and step by step, I translated the number into the Vietnamese. I must've made some kind of mistake, because the Vietnamese didn't manage to get it all down and started speaking in Vietnamese to my friend, to get the number!

How much of a stretch of one's braincells is it to work out that if person 1 speaks language a to person 2, and person 2 then reiterates said utterance in language b to person 3 that person 1 cannot speak language b?! No-can-do. Asian skin, with Tay, must be Vietnamese!

[snollygoster]

Try asking for an e-mail address. Most Viets have an e-mail address, but if you ask for it, it will be one of the most frustrating experiences you will have in Vietnam.
I used to make it a priority in adult classes that every student could say his/her phone number, and e-mail address.
It was a 2 hour lesson, and 50% of the e-mail addresses I was told were incorrect almost every time.
Most can write it, but few can tell you what it is.

[inhanoi]

Are these things true of the citizens of any other country, or is it only Vietnam?

[esbam2002]

Here is an example of what I mean in this. I had an adult class a few days ago, and asked them a question based on a picture in their book. No one gave me an answer, and all sat quiet in their desks staring at the book. Once I started calling on students individually to tell me an answer 98% of the class right when asked had an answer to give me. Maybe not the most creative of answers, but answers related to the picture. This tells me that it isn't so much that Vietnamese can't think or be creative, but rather they don't want to stand out. They are to worried about what other think of them, but not lacking most times in being able to think.

[snollygoster]

"Are these things true of the citizens of any other country, or is it only Vietnam?"

Of course the same thing happens in some other countries, but this is the Vietnam forum.

[inhanoi]

I find it ironic that the original topic of this conversation was "blanket discrimination."

[generalgiap]

There have been some interesting comments but mainly ignorant statements based on a lack of knowledge and any real analysis of the Vietnamese.

[snollygoster]

Bravo General.
All seconded.
Now wait for the criticisms from people who have limited experience of Vietnamese society.

"all children have the innate ability to think on a creative level"-true indeed, BUT that soon gets "regimented " out of them by the system.

"Vietnamese are quick learners regarding copying other peoples ideas.." example- pirated CDs, text books etc. Until 2007, Vietnam was the world leader in copyright piracy, a position now enjoyed by China.

[inhanoi]

This is a very painful example of how a post can be 'hijacked.' The original question was whether or not someone with a slight physical handicap would be successful in a job hunt. It certainly has strayed from that query. I feel sorry for the original poster, the few relevant replies are lost in this irrelevant and highly subjective morass.

[generalgiap]

[Mr. Kalgukshi]

For the record, this is not a forum for general debate and discussion of political subjects that either may be offensive to some or violate laws of a particular nation.

Such comments will be deleted and sanctions issued, as appropriate.

[The Mad Hatter]

[The Mad Hatter]

I agree with GG on this one about discouraging communication as part of a larger trend. Since the method of our textbooks is CLT communicative language teaching, we can't really be blamed for expressing bemusement and frustration at the inability of locals to demonstrate the main theoretical objective of CLT methodology: communicative competence since it is part of our daily job day in day out.. But be careful what you wish for, if you discourage discussion you end up with no interpersonal skills, no social skills and inability to work together to solve problems in small group and pairwork activities that ESL CLT method calls for. If teachers are discouraged from discussion their expertise on the job will diminish as well.

[snollygoster]

"The original question was whether or not someone with a slight physical handicap would be successful in a job hunt."

Yes-back to the original question: You should be successful-BUT as its part of the local culture to unhesitatingly point out physical abberations, some uneducated employers may see this as a negative to employment.
I mentioned earlier a colleague who had only one hand-He often was told "Hey-you have only one hand!" in a manner that would suggest he forgot to bring the other one today.
So I temper my suggestion that you will not have much grief in a job hunt, by saying, be prepared for the occasional "Hey, you have a funny eye", and the possibility of some rather insensitive school director telling you that you couldn't possibly be a good teacher because good teachers have two good eyes. They WILL be in the minority, but they will be there.
Some will, some won't, so what, who's next?

"a very painful example"- Sorry I don't understand how that is painful. The OPs questions were answered.