Job Discussion Forums

[Sashadroogie]

it's an improvement. Not as hostile or humiliating as the other idea. But still comes across as shifting responsibility for learning onto the students and allowing the teacher to wash his hands of the whole matter. What do teachers get paid to do exactly? Not act like little gods surely...?

[johnslat]

Dear Sasha,

Who's acting? Moreover, I'm a BIG god, not a little one

Regards,
John

P.S. And stop calling me Shirley.

[Sashadroogie]

Dear Johnslat

Now now. You'd be blaspheming if it weren't for the ideological fact that there is no deity in the Glorious Future that awaits us all on the horizon. But until that blessed day, perhaps we can just focus on teaching the students and testing them fairly. A revolutionary idea? ☭



Sasha, the human, all too human, teacher

[johnslat]

Dear Sasha,

What!! And give up all the "god-perks" that make teaching such a desirable. "many are called, but few are chosen" career? That's not revolutionary - but it is revolting.

Regards,
John

[artemisia]

I�ve scanned the room for materials lying open on the floor next to desks (I�ve removed such material). Keeping desks separate and remaining vigilant throughout the exam is about all you can do. Failing the whole group is not a policy I had ever considered, official test or not. Students would complain, I�m sure, or at the very least, resent me.

I like the idea of a whole study group that includes everyone helping each other but ultimately I don�t think you can make students take responsibility for other students� (lack of) learning. They can and should be more responsible for their own. It�s not only up to the teacher, which some of them like to believe, especially at exam time. And it doesn�t seem to matter how well some do, they often look disappointed they didn�t get 110%!

[MotherF]

[johnslat]

Dear MotherF,

"The teacher and the teacher's knowledge are no longer the center of the classroom, the students and their learning are."

I take it you're not teaching in the Middle East

Regards,
John

[Sashadroogie]

[Glenski]

[Sashadroogie]

Glenski, I think you can see that most other posters share my abhorrence of your suggestion. Fail everybody unfairly for a single exam or a whole course - this makes no difference at all to the utter unfairness of it. Announcing in advance that bully-boy tactics from the boot-camp are going to be employed makes no difference either - it is still grossly inimicable to any sense of decency.

Plus, if we make a threat like that, for a threat is exactly what it is, then we'll be forced to make good on it should anyone transgress the rules, or run the risk of losing any remaining respect we might have had at the beginning.

Again, making students responsible for other students, whether their behaviour or learning, strikes me as extremely negligent. It's not their job to police their peers.

By the way, I can read just fine, thank you. I am simply dismayed that anyone claiming professional status could make such a suggestion, or, presumably use such a practice in their own classroom.

[Sashadroogie]

[johnslat]

It's also not true in my present environment: teaching ESL here in New Mexico. This is a teacher's dream: every student is in the classroom ONLY because they want to be there. And many of the people I'm talking about have one or even two jobs and families. Yet, they still somehow find the time (five classroom hours - plus homework hours a week) to try to improve their personal situations by improving their English.
Are there students responsible for their own learning? They are, indeed, and in a way that never ceases to excite my admiration.

However, I really don't think that the issue of responsibility connects with the issue of "group punishment." Regardless of whom you consider "responsible." it's the individual who should be accountable. Group punishment, in my opinion, is always (as mentioned earlier) "ineffective, counter-productive, lazy and unethical."

Regards,
John

P.S. Dear Glenski,

As an advocate of group punishment. would you satisfy my curiosity? Have you ever been subjected to it?

[Sashadroogie]

Dear Johnslat

Couldn't agree with you more. In fact your thinking is completely in line with ideological orthodoxy.


Regards

Sasha

[geaaronson]

As long as we are intent on punishing the group to make the individual pay the price, let`s just go ahead and haul each and every American to the Hague Court, not just the former president. We are all equally culpable for the Iraquan travesty so we all must suffer the consequences.
And should you object on the grounds that you favor the incursion, take every other social issue in account. So we would all be held accountable for lynchings, genocide, illegal invasions, etc. etc.? What happened to the American Indians, genocide in Rwanda, the Balkans, Tienemen Square. After all, when given the chance, why didn`t we effectively prevent mainland China going Communist. And we never did come to the defense of poor Hungary or Czeckoslavakia. If you are of conservative stripe, surely you hang your head in shame of the latter two. Guilty, guilty, guilty! Face the punishment.

[johnslat]

Dear geaaronson,

"In order for an individual to experience collective guilt, he must identify himself as a part of the in-group."

Well, that lets me off the hook. I've never been a part of any "in-group."

Now, "out-groups," well, that's another story.

Regards,
John