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jason_seeburn
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 399
Location: Toronto
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 Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2004 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by jason_seeburn on Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:42 am; edited 1 time in total |
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MTurton
Joined: 10 Mar 2004
Posts: 107
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| Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2004 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Andy in Taiwan wrote: |
| jason_seeburn wrote: |
| Well, I was given the opportunity to add 50,000 NT a month to my 63,000NT salary a month after I arrived, by working mornings in a Kindergarten. That would mean I would get up at 7:00, start work at 7:30, and work straight until 1:00, have lunch for half an hour, get on my motorbike, and ride to my other school, where I would work until 8:30pm. |
Wow do tell Jason, you would work like this five days a week? I'll dissect your statements:
1) Work at 7:30, now would this be prep work or would this be teaching because most teaching doesn't start until 9:00AM-9:30. |
Andy, Jason is right on target. I did exactly this in Taipei in 1990. I got a fantastic job offer, 20K a week, for a very exclusive morning kindergarten, in addition to the mountain of money I was making working evenings at a bushiban and Sesame Street. I took the kindergarten job and lasted six months before I found myself wiring out on the kids, whom I grew to hate passionately. I got there at 7:30 in the morning, when class started and left around lunch.
Michael |
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brian
Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 299
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| Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 3:13 am Post subject: |
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| jason_seeburn wrote: |
| I've heard of people clearing 90.000 per month in their upper years of being there. But it's all just rumours. |
| jason_seeburn wrote: |
| Well, I was given the opportunity to add 50,000 NT a month to my 63,000NT salary a month after I arrived, by working mornings in a Kindergarten. |
Am I the only one who gets confused by these sorts of posts? Isn�t it either one or the other � you can either earn over NTD90,000 per month or you can�t. First he states that it is all just rumors and suggests that it isn't possible. Then he changes tack and states that within a month of being here (he was only in Taiwan for nine months) he was offered work paying a total of NTD120,000 per month. Isn't then just conceivable, that someone who has been here for a few years may just have had exposure to job offers of NTD90,000 a month and over? A statement is made. Someone disagrees with the statement. So the statement gets changed. I seem to recall there was an identical situation with this very person regarding the use of agents.
The facts are like this. The majority of new arrivals don't generally have much to offer schools. Quite reasonably then these schools offer these teachers a reasonable wage of NTD50-65,000 dependant upon the number of hours that they take. This is what many people end up earning for the first year or two. Some schools will sometimes offer more than this to newbies, but in many cases there is a reason that these schools are willing to offer more than the average, and often these reasons are not to the benefit of the teacher.
After a few years of working here, or if you have something special to offer schools, such as fluency in Chinese, you can then start to earn some good money. Yes, you can do this by working an extraodinary number of hours, but you don't have to. You can work smart and select a school that offers good wages for reasonable hours. People doing this sort of work would most likely bring in around NTD80-120,000 a month. This is what the smart people do. |
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jason_seeburn
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 399
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by jason_seeburn on Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Aristotle
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1388
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 4:59 am Post subject: |
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If you come at the right time and know what you are doing, you may be able to get away with a few hundred dollars. Stay in Taipei and arrive towards the end of June.
Good luck,
A. |
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brian
Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 299
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah right Jason. What you mean is the opposite of what you said. That makes perfect sense!! |
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TaoyuanSteve
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Taoyuan
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| jason_seeburn wrote: |
| TaoyuanSteve wrote: |
| jason_seeburn wrote: |
| This can only be accomplished by being good at what you do (ie, actually teaching the kids english), and having a real good rapport with the parents. Speaking Chinese would definately be a bonus. |
I disagree. Put on a good show. Education here is secondary to appearances. |
And I spent months arguing with this guy? Put on a show, sure. Then six months down the road, when the kids haven't learned anything, just tell the parents that their kids must be stupid. To make more money, you need to do either of three things:
1. bring in more money to the school
2. get your boss to give you a bigger cut of what he's getting
3. work more hours.
I found that it is easy to do number three (but you kill yourself), hard to do number one (but very lucrative if you can) and impossible to do number two. Your boss will almost never give you more of what he's getting, unless you are the only available teacher in miles and he can't find a replacement for you (unlikely on Taiwan, but more likely in Korea). You can, however, bring in more money to the school, by getting a rep as someone who can teach and causing the school to have a surplus of available students, so they can fill their classes and charge more per head. Then you can make more. You can make more doing this because your boss will not want to lose you, so you have some bargaining power. It's hard to do because most of the time they just throw away ESL teachers and get a new one for next time. Any white face will do just fine. And then it is just a matter of putting on a show and stealing their money for as long as it lasts. But you will find that the parents actually do want the kids to learn something, and will pay very well when they do. |
Jason, do you really think the system of private language schools over here represents the best possible method for language learning? Yes, put on a show. That is what it all amounts to. With the time wasted on the useless and totally unnecessary KK phonetic system, memorized (but not understood) scripts for "teaching demos," valuing of reciting and memorization over comprehension and exessive concentration on grammatical analysis all make for a system in which appearance is of much more value than education. Kids can have studied for ages and still not be able to perform simple language tasks like give directions to a foreigner. Is it my ideal? No. But I'll say one thing: if results lead to successful businesses, the tefl industry wouldn't be nearly as bad as it is over here.
Don't talk about things you really don't understand. In reality, you have no idea what makes or breaks a successful language school over here. Refresh our memories: how long has it been since you were last here; and how long were you here for again? You're an inexperienced former teacher who has since left the industry. You only come here to issue insults. I await the next round. |
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jason_seeburn
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 399
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by jason_seeburn on Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jason_seeburn
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 399
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by jason_seeburn on Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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brian
Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 299
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| jason_seeburn wrote: |
| what I meant was the same as what I said. So when you get your mind untwisted and see things straight again, you'll probably notice that. |
Jason you really undermine any credibility that you might have, when you make comments like these. Why can�t you just be mature enough to accept that:
a. Your earlier statement was wrong
b. Your ealier statement waws clear in its meaning only to yourself. Sure, I know that you will attempt to insult and suggest that I am the only one to not get the full meaning of your original post, but I challenge you to reread and highlight for me the points that pertain to your later assertions about number of hours worked etc. If these don�t exist in your original post then you must accept that it was unclear, misleading, and factually incorrect.
First, you said this�
| jason_seeburn wrote: |
| I've heard of people clearing 90.000 per month in their upper years of being there. But it's all just rumours. |
� which obviously means that you have heard about this happening but don�t believe that it does really happen. That is afterall the nature of the word �rumor�. No mention of the number of hours required or the fact that, in your opinion, they would have to work a large number of hours to get this money.
Then after my statement that it was in fact possible, and I had actually done it, you changed your statement as below�
| jason_seeburn wrote: |
| What I mean is (for those of us who have the IQ of at least a toilet seat), that it is easy to get lots of work and make lots of money, but I have heard (though not confirmed) rumours that some people are able to work 30 hours a week or less, and bring home 90,000 per month. I have never seen it done, nor had the opportunity to do it myself. But I have heard it may be possible, though I am sure that if it was, it is a well hidden secret how to do it. |
�which obviously means the opposite of what you stated earlier. You are conceding that you are aware that teachers can in fact earn more than NTD90, 000 per month, but now you add in the extra conditionals about having to be for 30 hours a week or less.
What�s the problem? Well, the problem is that your initial statement is incorrect. You now concede this yourself. Had it been left unchallenged, then newbies may have been under the mistaken belief that they could only expect to earn NTD50-70,000 per month no longer how long they stayed here. The fact is that you can earn a great deal more if you are willing to work hard, or have a special skill to offer. Many people do it. Remember that you were living in a small town for a new school for a very short period of time. Just because you never had exposure to the sorts of wages (for reasonable hours) that some of us have exposure to, doesn�t mean that these wages don�t exist. The posts following on from your initial claim seem to accept this as being fact.
I am not talking about those dream jobs of NTD1000 per hour or anything. I am talking about jobs that recognize your experience or personal attributes, and are willing to pay you for the work that you put in. |
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wood
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 202
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 2:01 am Post subject: |
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If you stay here for a few years, it is possible to make 90,000/mo teaching English. However, those jobs require that you be able to speak Chinese and have experience teaching English. They also expect you to follow the schedules which they provide for you. Class size varies from 16 up to 32 students and parents are allowed in the classroom. I've had two such jobs and I can say that they aren't for everyone. But they do exist. You'd be working anywhere from 24-32 hours per week.
Most people here can expect 50,000-70,000/mo. Sure, more can be made but there is a price to pay. |
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jason_seeburn
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 399
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 2:01 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by jason_seeburn on Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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brian
Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 299
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| wood wrote: |
| If you stay here for a few years, it is possible to make 90,000/mo teaching English. However, those jobs require that you be able to speak Chinese and have experience teaching English. They also expect you to follow the schedules which they provide for you. Class size varies from 16 up to 32 students and parents are allowed in the classroom. |
I agree that these jobs are undesirable for most. These are the types of jobs that tend to offer over NTD700 an hour, and require Chinese language abilities.
These are not the only jobs however for which you can earn good money with. I mentioned earlier that I was earning in the range of NTD100,000 a month working for chain school, teaching the standard classes in the standard chain manner. I earned the right to this money after devoting four years of my life to them, and others can too if that is what they want. I mention all of this in answer to Seeburns comments that earning money like this was a fable. It is available, at many of the schools that we currently work at, without needing Chinese, and without working too many hours. As most good things in life you have to earn it, and if you want it, it is a possibility.
Seeburn - I revert to my earlier precise of you 'You are pathetic'. |
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jason_seeburn
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 399
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by jason_seeburn on Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Richard
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 33
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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PING-PONG-PING-PONG-PING-PONG-PING- [ball is caught]
Ahem. To address the original poster's question: bring at least $1000, no more than $3000. In my opinion, $1000 is more than enough. You'll find work quickly if you're determined.
The hostel thing for the first couple of months in Taipei isn't that bad. Sure, sharing a bathroom with a dozen others isn't the greatest, but it's cheap, it's centralized, there's a grapevine - and it will give you confidence to see you aren't the only one gazing about nervously and clutching a Lonely Planet. |
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