Job Discussion Forums

[LongShiKong]

I understand now why you're called ALT. The 'A' is for 'assistant', right?

Here in China, it's the other way around, especially in public schools. You're lucky if you even get a Chinese teacher in the class... and then getting them to actually help you can be another matter. As a matter of fact, in private schools here, many FTs I've seen end up sidelining them rather than using them to model dialogues, pairwork, give instructions, explain grammar, translate vocab, partner with weaker students, etc., etc.

Ironically, the Shane training video that I watched and the head office rep who did our first promo class exemplifies this sidelining. With just teacher-centric drills, there's no need for a Chinese Teacher to do any of that so they just sit and watch for the most part. They certainly don't receive much teacher training either.

[rich45]

[rxk22]

Like Rich said, it's up to the JTs.

At my good school last year;
for 9th grade, I got free reign, and did some fun presentations. Kids liked it, was somewhat interactive. At the end the JT made sure they understood everything. Was really good. Enjoyed it.

Same JT with the 7th grade. He undermined everything I did. Wanted oddly specific and overly difficult worksheets, games and what not. So the kids had no idea what was going on. I had maybe 10mins tme total, and it was super awful

[fluffyhamster]

You've summoned me from my hamster cage LSK, so here are my thoughts, for what they're worth! (I've only briefly skimmed the thread, and am just replying to select points that caught my eye. Apologies if I've missed anything of [more] import!).

(I'm not entirely sure what the real purpose is behind the thread, but) If you want to know if your "dismissal" was a bit harsh, well, it could well have been, LSK. I've come to realize that many of those who continually throw "too difficult" at the budding teacher (who may in fact still be following whatever dictat-"approved" method a good 90%+ of the time) probably often have the least idea (or certainly, imagination and creativity) when it comes to actually teaching (i.e. imparting stuff of much genuine short- let alone long-term value). Backseat drivers and all that, screaming that everyne's going to die, when all you've done is barely turn on the ignition, forget yet done a supposed handbrake skid turn in to a parking space and come to a shocked standstill LOL. And in between the "extremes" of rote item drilling versus more communicative pairwork etc there is simply the middle ground in which the teacher creates rapport, interest, relevance etc etc through a process of establishing "joint attention". (Take a look at my "Best type of teaching for newbie?" thread, a search for me as author, keyword 'alien', Japan forum IIRC, should do it, to get an idea of what I'm on about here).

Turning to "China versus Japan": To me, Chinese students seem(ed) the more able and eager, but part of that might've been due to my speaking better Chinese than Japanese (I'm not a strict Direct Methodista). As for methodological differences in Chinese versus Japanese public schools and private language classrooms, I don't feel there is ever ultimately that much difference between ANY of them (i.e. they are all the "same") and what the individual westerner believes could be brought in to help improve matters. Yet despite all my and others' criticisms of these "various" school systems, I am always aware of how much the average so-called "communicative" westerner usually builds almost for granted upon foundations laid by the Chinese or Japanese themselves, so there is ultimately no such thing as a bad method, if the student is learning something that will chime and ring a bell later, and we should be thankful for at least that. (Correcting incorrect but quite complex previous grammar "rulings" is a different matter though!). As for the apparent continued prevalence in Asia of Grammar Translation and the like despite expressed sentiments to the contrary, that is basically government for you, falling back on "logical" methods and wary of decentralizing/humanizing/freeing up the process. And it's not like many of the so-called "communicative" approaches floating and flotsamming-jetsamming around have really sussed out all the answers either, at least not in any true empirical sense~basis.

Genki English: I've never liked it, even for kids. There is more genkiness to be had in pulling and inspecting a bogey/booger LOL, but the Genki method would have us pulling teeth it seems (that, or having fits). The fact that its creator appears to be using it for adults too is puzzling, to say the least. (He may be breaking down "affective filters" and whatnot, but certainly those adult students will have learnt to say little of actual value, going by those clips on YT, despite having spent the time "learning" some of this language apparently called English). I would like to ask him how he learnt his Japanese, seriously. I doubt if he did so by enrolling in IMHO fairly excruciating kindy-level classes. But don't get me wrong though, there is a time and a place for the occasional song and bit of TPR and stuff like that. Unfortunately quite a few of the Japanese elementary schools I went to seemed to think that GE or similar was the way to go (and often the only way, until I deferred to my better judgement and more or less "insisted" otherwise: "It's OK, I'll type up all the necessary new lesson plans in Japanese myself, seeing as you'd need to submit plans to the BOE explaining exactly what I'll be doing besides or instead of Hello in week 1, Numbers in week 2, Colours in week 3, etc" LOL).

[LongShiKong]

Thanks for your input, FH.

The provocative title and dismissive remarks (about G.E.) were intended to generate debate rather than the consensus they apparently have. Can I conclude that teaching in Japan, unlike China is highly 'scripted', both for student and teacher alike?

Even you indicate the need for 'necessary' new lesson plans. As you're no doubt aware, here in China, lesson plans are rarely obligatory let alone scrutinized, even in the private sector as the vast majority of FTs are hired for their foreign 'face'. Am I correct that in Japan, that novelty wore off decades ago and few parents even in smaller cities coax their child to greet foreign passers-by?

I don't want to turn this thread into a China-Japan comparison but it seems that (language) teaching methods haven't evolved since Japan's economic heyday in the late '70s, early '80s. Shane and Genki's approach exemplifies this period's ELT methodology. In fact, Shane still uses early '80s 'New Wave' inspired pop songs for pre-K and K classes.

Such entrenchment, such resistance to change is understandable given the state of Japan's economy over the past decade, and the so-called 'Confucian' model of education which, I assume, is just as test/teacher-centric as China's, lacking the rigor of academic discourse (research) we westerners take for granted.

At least here in China, the economic bubble hasn't burst yet--FTs are still relatively new--there's more tolerance for experimentation and more disposable income. Furthermore, overseas travel/study opportunities are putting greater emphasis on fluency skills as Chinese adults are only too aware of the limitations of the way they learned English.