Job Discussion Forums

[Dekadan]

I do not have examples of ILA discriminating against Asians, however, I did work there with Asians. So perhaps they did in the past, but they no longer do.

[Kim C]

Thank you again for all of your insight! I really appreciate it.

The general impression I'm getting is that Vietnam has a reputation for discriminating against Asians, but it's a lot less widespread than before...? Also, I'm curious about working (at least) two teaching jobs at the same time -- are schools generally flexible with your hours if you're just working there part-time?

[skarper]

Most negativity will come from students visibly disappointed that you're not white. They probly won't be directly rude about it but you'll pick up on it and it'll take a few lessons to get them to judge you on your merits.

If you are good they will overlook your racial origin. Likewise, rubbish white teachers only get to trade off their white skin for a few lessons before they are judged on their merits.

Demand so far outstrips supply here that you will find work eventually and if you are good then you will do well enough.

[coolhand]

Hi there, I am in a similar situation with similar concerns. I was originally born in the Philippines, but I have an American citizenship/passport. I speak like a white guy and I have a BS at an American university, however I have no experience teaching English in a classroom. I am currently on a work and holiday visa in Australia and I was thinking of heading there directly in August/September to teach for a year, maybe more if I end up liking it.

I was thinking of getting a CELTA in HCMC or Hanoi and applying for as many jobs as possible, then doing research on schools afterwards, on which job(s) to accept if I get any offers.

I was also a little concerned about obtaining visa documents while away from my home country. Does anyone know if Vietnam requires a state or federal background check?

A good cultural experience, meeting new people and the fulfillment of helping others develop are my top priorities. Saving some money would be nice too but I guess I shouldn't set my hopes too high. You guys think that finding a job in which I can support myself and possibly save money is doable?

[mark_in_saigon]

[inhanoi]

From mark's final paragraph: "You may also find that the student happily takes your time and then promptly forgets about you after he has learned his lessons."

You must be choosing the wrong people to help. I'm in regular contact with students from 4, 5, 6 years ago, living overseas etc. And they initiate the contact. I'm the one who sometimes doesn't remember them.

There's too much cynicism on this board, masquerading as wisdom.

[mark_in_saigon]

I have some that maintain contact. I also have a lot of students who just get the help they need and then move on. Reality not masquerading as anything. Everyone's mileage may vary. I rarely state something as a hard and fast rule that is never broken. It may be better to just state your own positive experiences, and be happy to let it go at that. You won't find me denigrating your experiences as optimism masquerading as anything. I respect your opinion, and find no pleasure in devaluing it.

[coolhand]

Thanks for the advice Mark. My point of emphasis was that I know I'm not gonna get rich doing teaching in Vietnam. I guess I really meant to say that these are "some" of my top priorities. My one top priority really is to be content with what I'm doing. I don't mean that every moment of my life is gonna be happy and stress free, in fact I think that would make it too easy and quite boring really. I felt like this can be a new challenge for me that can broaden my horizons.

Your post has mainly negative aspects to teaching abroad, but I'm sure that there is some sort of fulfillment you gain from it right?

[mark_in_saigon]

Yes, I absolutely think the teaching part just enables the good parts. I have enjoyed teaching to some extent, but I have worked in some very difficult environments in the past, and so I could be happy doing almost anything. The work landscape is such a mess here, I think that for a lot of folks, work just doesn't work. I think this is reflected in the huge turnover in the industry, both in the jobs and in the overall length of stay among teachers. I think the very low return rate from tourists also speaks to some of these same issues. So yeah, I work to stay active, pay the bills, and hope to someday find a spot where it really is not so unprofessional. Failing that, we can leave it when it gets stupid, try again, and enjoy the best parts of life here, which for me will almost certainly never be teaching. Based on your original post (and primary goals as stated), I felt you were in danger of a big disappointment. Sometimes we really do help folks, some of the students are great, but to try and build one's job around altruism here is not facing the reality of how these folks have to live.

I am sure some folks are having golden lives, and more power to them. I also am having the best part of my life now, but not because of the teaching (or the income from teaching, which helps, but is not that big a deal for me). Some aspects of life here could never be duplicated in the west, so for me, it is a pretty easy decision to stay over here somewhere, although maybe not VN forever. Not sure why we tend to break into camps on all these issues, but I do note that a lot of our own people seem to have it in for each other, perhaps it is a reflection of the kind of person this life appeals to.

Even when things seem black and white, it often is not as it appears at first glance. Somebody commented about cynicism masquerading as wisdom or some such. I have learned that the more I learn here, what I really learn is how little I really know about what is really going on. How's that for wisdom? The real estate situation is a great example, but the economic system in general falls into that realm also, and quite a bit about the people themselves as well.

This can be a great life for the folks who can control themselves, who have some resources already, and who can accept the constant disappointments of believing something is as originally billed. Costs are so low here, we can afford to start over and over, and put up with third rate service. Just have to have the right attitude about it.

[sigmoid]

Well, I wouldn't worry too much because, basically from a psychological point of view, you're the perfect candidate:

1) young and inexperienced with few expectations, in a word "green" (will work for less and not complain much, not very confident)

2) more than willing to spend your time and your own money to join the CELTA club (shows that you have a malleable, friendly weakness personality that respects authority, obeys commands and can fit in)

3) female (?) (thus less risky in terms of boozing and womanizing, possibly less assertive)

4) you "love" HCMC (unrealistically positive and optimistic to an exaggerated degree)

I know this sounds critical, but it's not. The main point is that you have what schools are looking for and will likely do well in Viet Nam.

[The Mad Hatter]

Good luck to the OP and coolhand.

Mark's post should be a good guide to anyone who wants to come here as a non-tourist. It is honest and realistic.

The post immediately following can only be described as patronising, presumtuous and snide. This also should be of some help as it is indicative of the level of support you can expect to receive from a minority here involved in esl.

I wish you all the best, we're not all on this forum to bait newcomers.

[sigmoid]

[blateson]

Both Mark and Sigmoid have made some very good points. It's called the "not so pretty picture" and the harder side of reality. I nodded my head several times or mumbled "yep" when reading some of their posts above (generally in agreement).

[The Mad Hatter]

My apologies to Sigmoid, I read your post as opinions.

Never underestimate anyone, individual resilience cannot be generalised.

[Mattingly]