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pr455
Joined: 08 May 2011
Posts: 135
Location: MADRID, SPAIN
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 Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| mrpoe wrote: |
| Since work experience outside of the EU doesn't count for much, one should expect to start at the bottom of the ladder (a short ladder it seems). |
I would have to disagree with this statement. My Spanish teaching experience in the USA was highly valued when I got to Madrid in 2003. Acadmies were looking for people who had previous language teaching experience. Once you teach one language, the teaching methodology used to teach that language easily transfers to teaching other languages.
When I started at GES (Global English School) in 2003, an academy that no longer exists, I was valued because of my teaching experience and what I brought to the table. Less than a year later, I was promoted to Assitant Director of Studies.
It's all about marketing yourself as well. What can you offer that other English teachers don't? For example, I give talks about teaching methodology at conferences and give teacher training sessions for The Deprtmenent of Education of Madrid.
In general, English teaching in Madrid, I can't speak for other places, is a very competitive market and teachers need to think about continuing education and learning about the latest methodolgy so that they can continue giving good classes and seprating themselves from the backpackers.
Shawn |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| My Spanish teaching experience in the USA was highly valued when I got to Madrid in 2003. Acadmies were looking for people who had previous language teaching experience. Once you teach one language, the teaching methodology used to teach that language easily transfers to teaching other languages. |
Yes, that's clearly applicable. However, several of us have been engaged in a wider conversation about teaching methods and student expectations across cultures/regions. The part of this that we've considered in most depth is how teaching experience in Asia transfers to other parts of the world. I've personally worked with teachers in both Europe and North America who had considerable experience in various Asian countries who struggled with the more student-centred teaching methods. There's a current thread in the Germany forum on the topic:http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=94977
In my experience, teachers who show up in the EU with 'only' teaching experience in Asia dont' initially have much of a leg up over a newly-qualified CELTA holder, whose teaching practice was at least with European students. Of course, as they integrate and adapt, that changes, but given a candidate with a year of experience with European students and one with a year of experience in Asia, I think most employers will definitely go for the former.
Last edited by spiral78 on Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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There might be more schools open to hiring Americans in the new EU countries. That sounds like a logical segue into the European job market. I also haven't ruled out Moscow or St Petersburg. Though I'm not sure how that plays on a CV submitted to a German employer.
One last question (for the moment): Would the average German language school rate work experience in Russia and the new EU countries of equal value? Assume schools of good (not necessarily excellent) quality and reputation all around. |
Yes, I think so. While Russians and Germans may hold some negative stereotypes about each others' culture, adult professional students from both cultures are fairly similar (I"ve done extensive work with both). They are highly educated, hard-working, and expect value for their time/money. There are quite a few teachers in the region who have migrated across Germany, Poland, and the Czech Republic/Slovakia successfully. |
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pr455
Joined: 08 May 2011
Posts: 135
Location: MADRID, SPAIN
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| My Spanish teaching experience in the USA was highly valued when I got to Madrid in 2003. Acadmies were looking for people who had previous language teaching experience. Once you teach one language, the teaching methodology used to teach that language easily transfers to teaching other languages. |
Yes, that's clearly applicable. However, several of us have been engaged in a wider conversation about teaching methods and student expectations across cultures/regions. The part of this that we've considered in most depth is how teaching experience in Asia transfers to other parts of the world. I've personally worked with teachers in both Europe and North America who had considerable experience in various Asian countries who struggled with the more student-centred teaching methods. There's a current thread in the Germany forum on the topic:http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=94977
In my experience, teachers who show up in the EU with 'only' teaching experience in Asia dont' initially have much of a leg up over a newly-qualified CELTA holder, whose teaching practice was at least with European students. Of course, as they integrate and adapt, that changes, but given a candidate with a year of experience with European students and one with a year of experience in Asia, I think most employers will definitely go for the former. |
Thanks for your varied response. I really enjoy reading your posts and getting another point of view on these challenging issues in the English teaching world.
This "wider conversation" is an interesting one, but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter where you teach or who you teach, there is still teaching methodology involved when working with students.
Yes, I do take into account student expectations, but even student expectations are different throughout Europe, so even there we can't generalize that it is the same.
Let's see if we can find some common ground.
You have to remember that that has been your experience and certainly doesn't apply to everyone who has taught in Asia. I know of two people I hired while working at GES who spent considerable time teaching in Asia and they were excellent, so we do need to remember that there are some exceptions to the general rule. The school where they worked gave them training and helped them to become better teachers, but, alas, that wasn't the norm. Their student evaluations, while at GES, were always excellent and I looked at it as them bringing in another aspect of teaching, after having taught in Asia.
I don't know how long it has been since you have been in Spain, but I can speak for Madrid and the majority of academies are desperate to find people, and your academy, if you had one here in Madrid, would be too, if it underbid just to get the contract and made promises that it couldn't keep. So, with many acadmeies, they are happy as long as potential teachers have a TEFL, some teaching experience, and it can be in Asia, a glowing letter of recommendation and a contact person that someone can email.
The TEFL climate has really changed and I don't see it getting any better for quite a while. Who knows? I could be wrong, but I am just sitting on the sidelines and watching it all happen.
Shawn
Last edited by pr455 on Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with you- my limited experience with Spanish and Italian and French students is quite different to German, Dutch, and Russian ones. And etc.
Also, of course there are some teachers whose experience in Asia applies fairly well in Europe or North America (again speaking VERY generally as we agree there are differences inside these regions). I worked with one MA candidate, for example, who did his dissertation on the use of a TBL approach at a Korean university. He's since transferred to the EU and is quite successful - but he's above the basic standard both in terms of qualifications and applicable experience. One of my teaching colleagues here was in Korea for three years (but has also taught for over a decade in Europe; DELTA and MA holder). She's great. Another one has experience only in Asia but hasn't worked out well - she tends to be really hung up on standing in front of the room with paper in her hand and has great difficulty giving any level of control of the class to the students, or understanding the value of doing so. That doesn't fit well in our teaching context (the university applies a PBL approach across all faculties).
My comments and those of the others who have contributed to the conversation on regional differences are focused on the general - and on teachers whose qualifications are at entry-level.
What we can offer to most newbies on these boards are essentially generalisations - barring the circumstance where one of us actually offers an interview to a poster (which does occasionally happen).
By the way, as I've stated before (from my initial response to this OP:
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| I don't teach in Spain, but I've been in the EU for nearly 14 years now, and I have friends and professional acquaintances in Spain. There are Spain-based posters around and I'm sure they'll be along soon, but I'll put in my two cent's worth of explanations here |
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The university here has partners in Spain and I've done project work for and with teachers from Spain, and have contacts and acquaintances there. So, even more than you, I'm on the sidelines and I don't try to offer specifics or up-to-date hiring info outside of the general EU restrictions (which I do have direct knowledge of).
Last edited by spiral78 on Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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pr455
Joined: 08 May 2011
Posts: 135
Location: MADRID, SPAIN
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
I agree with you- my limited experience with Spanish and Italian and French students is quite different to German, Dutch, and Russian ones. And etc.
Also, of course there are some teachers whose experience in Asia applies fairly well in Europe or North America (again speaking VERY generally as we agree there are differences inside these regions). I worked with one MA candidate, for example, who did his dissertation on the use of a TBL approach at a Korean university. He's since transferred to the EU and is quite successful - but he's above the basic standard both in terms of qualifications and applicable experience. One of my teaching colleagues here was in Korea for three years (but has also taught for over a decade in Europe). She's great. Another one has experience only in Asia but hasn't worked out well - she tends to be really hung up on standing in front of the room with paper in her hand and has great difficulty giving any level of control of the class to the students, or understanding the value of doing so. That doesn't fit well in our teaching context (the university applies a PBL approach across all faculties).
My comments and those of the others who have contributed to the conversation on regional differences are focused on the general - and on teachers whose qualifications are at entry-level.
What we can offer to most newbies on these boards are essentially generalisations - barring the circumstance where one of us actually offers an interview to a poster (which does occasionally happen). |
Spiral,
You quick little devil, hehe. At the end of the day we agree and yes, working at the university level is its own beast. I can tell you many stories, but that's for another thread. 
As I have said before, I always enjoy reading your response and actually look forward to them. We are both honest in our opinions and get the reader to think more about the topic.
Have a great week, my friend.
Shawn |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, Shawn. I'm working on curriculum and student assessments via computer today, so the forum is an all-too-handy and interesting distractions  
Back to work!! |
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mightyfrea
Joined: 04 Jan 2012
Posts: 6
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pr455
Joined: 08 May 2011
Posts: 135
Location: MADRID, SPAIN
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Laura,
This program has been discussed before on previous threads, but thanks for mentioning it on this one. I am sure that it will help many people.
Shawn
Last edited by pr455 on Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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AGoodStory
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 738
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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This is a link to the program suggested by Grimace near the beginning of this thread. As Shawn says, there are several earlier threads that discuss the program at length. |
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Luxe
Joined: 08 Jul 2010
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| I think it's a bit misleading to say that Americans are shut out of the Western European TEFL market. In fact, it's absurdly easy in Germany, should you have the requisite sufficient funds. In Germany, you apply for a freelance visa, i.e. you cannot take up a salaried position and you must have more than one client. It's really quite easy. You simply provide a print out of your bank statement demonstrating a current balance of �7,908 (�659 per month), proof of private health insurance (I pay about �120 per month) and proof of at least two schools, companies, or clients that are willing to contract your services once you are awarded a visa. It's as easy as that. If you are from Australia, Canada, New Zealand, South Korea or the United States, you can apply from within Germany, as they have special relationships with these countries. Check out the German Consulate page for more info. It's definitely THE place for TEFL in Western Europe for Americans. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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This has been covered in detail on the Germany board, and there is no dispute that Germany is an option for non-EU citizens. I think we all agree on this. The OP in this case has, in fact, taken some steps in this direction thanks to some input from here.
However, I wouldn't call navigating the German legal system by any means 'absurdly easy.'  |
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