Job Discussion Forums

johnslat · Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:19 pm Post subject:

Dear Sasha,

Your post highlights yet another problem - the fact that "however" has another meaning: "it doesn't matter . . ."

"However big you think you are . . ."

Regards,
John

Sashadroogie · Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:38 pm Post subject:

Dear Johnslat

Of course, you know I did that just to be contrary... : )

Hic!

Best wishes

Sasha

2 over lee · Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:38 pm Post subject:

When there is basically no difference for me other than frequency and that nevertheless is more formal appropriate for written texts. Not sure students need to know more than that?

johnslat · Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:51 pm Post subject:

Dear 2 over lee,

So, if you replaced "however" with "nevertheless" in the following sentence , would it seem OK to you?

Fewer men smoke nowadays; however, the number of female smokers is rising.

Fewer men smoke nowadays; nevertheless, the number of female smokers is rising.

It doesn't seem right to me.

"Not sure students need to know more than that?"

Well, when a student asks me a question, I like to try to answer it correctly.

Regards,
John

johntpartee · Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 3258

Despite my earlier smart-a remarks, I have been thinking about this and it would seem that "however" would be more appropriate for comparison and contrast.

johnslat · Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:51 am Post subject:

Dear johntpartee,

I agree - however, would it always come under the heading of "usually" - or only usually? Very Happy

I am 69; my wife, however, is 66.

sounds fine - but

I am 69; my wife, nevertheless, is 66.

certainly doesn't.

Regards,
John

johntpartee · Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 3258

johnslat · Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:35 am Post subject:

Dear johntpartee

Well, OK - BEING 69 doesn't sound all that fine. Nevertheless, it's SO much better than the only other alternative Very Happy

.

Regards,
John

johntpartee · Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 3258

This should probably go under "Favourite Quotations", but:

Somebody asked Maurice Chevalier how it felt to be 80 years old.

Chevalier: "Pretty good, considering the alternative."

2 over lee · Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:56 pm Post subject:

John I salute you, that is a nice example - the problem is apathy on my side to investigate such answers. I cant really justify it.

But in the example you gave why does nevertheless seem wrong?

johnslat · Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:47 pm Post subject:

Dear 2 over lee (interesting user-name),

I think that "nevertheless" (usually) demands a relationship of "in spite ofness" with the previous idea whereas, as johntpartee mentioned, "however" is used more generally as contrast.

"However" seems (to me) to be more appropriate in more contexts (thus "more general") than "nevertheless."

I'd never have given it any thought myself had I not been asked the question. But that's one of the things I enjoy so much about teaching: you're always learning.

Regards,
John

Sashadroogie · Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:56 am Post subject:

johntpartee · Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 3258

Yeah, we saw it. We just usually ignore you.

Sashadroogie · Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:39 am Post subject:

Except to steal my ideas! Well it won't work! Today I am to be elected president, and then once I have full access to the nuclear stockpile, then you'll ALL have to listen to me mu ha ha ha haw!

johntpartee · Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 3258

Play with it outside, Sash.