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The Mad Hatter
Joined: 16 May 2010
Posts: 165
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 Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Andy123 wrote: |
I can not complain at all regarding my treatment from the police. We all know what the reality is when driving in Viet Nam. I was always treated fairly and openly told my Viet friends this.
The woman whose head was run over by a truck still haunts me to this day. The accident was due to her husband�s foolishness and disregard for common sense. You know you have become numb after you stop counting the dead ones.
Too many times I saw an accident victim (in most cases dead due to head trauma) pulled out of the street by their heals. Speaking of that, it still amazes me how an accident victim can be pulled out of their tied shoes after impact. Just imagine the impact the brain must undergo.
Snolly, I never lived in the central tay areas of the city. I mostly lived in the countryside sections and drove to the city center. On more times than I care to admit I was hit purposely. We all know a rush hour bump, tap or push. In every case of intentional hitting they spoke English to me either wanting to show their education and/or prejudge. Two of the harder hits had the potential to have injured me, them or others badly.
The last time someone hit me it resulted in a horrific accident. Senseless.
I do not know if it is my character, upbringing or my education but I would never go up to someone and try to hurt them physically because of a personal bias. Do all people have bias? Of course. It is human nature. If there ever comes a time in my life that I behave in such a manner I would have the Doc put me down like a dog.
Drive carefully and realize that everything in life has a risk. God gives us choices to minimize those risks but sometimes we have no real control on the outcome. |
Nice post.
I've never had any problems with the police and in fact stop and chat with the odd one or two I've met over the years. I've always had a licence and I always drive within the (rarely observed) laws.
The degree of lawlessness among expats here leaves me speechless when I hear of them working without permits, driving without licences then criticising the local Vietnamese. |
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Dekadan
Joined: 09 Dec 2011
Posts: 95
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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In the two years that I lived in Viet Nam, I was very lucky when it came to the traffic cops. One time I was outside HCMC and speeding. One of the few times that they had decent wide roads and I was doing 80, following a car that was doing the same. The cop ignored the car and came after me, but I just played the ignorant foreigner and he decided that I wasn't worth the bother. I was pretty lucky, but if he had made me pay a fine, I wouldn't complain about it: I screwed up and probably should have paid for it.
Most of the helmets are pretty poorly constructed. The straps are the worst, not doing a very good job of keeping the helmet in the correct position. Even worse to me though, are the people that are more concerned with keeping their hair looking good and deliberately wearing the helmet improperly. Which is more important: being protected properly or not having hat head?
Btw, for the people that have never gotten a formal lesson on helmet safety: I believe that the front of your helmet should be no more than an inch above your eyebrows (2 1/2 cm). Or you can drop close to $100 and get a full-faced helmet from the store across from the New World Hotel. Mine even had sunglasses that would slide down. Sure it's a little hotter, but it also kept the dust and other crap out of my eyes so I didn't have to be constantly blinking it out of my vision. My only complaint about it was that it took up a lot of space and I could never leave it with my bike (that would get stolen pretty quick!). |
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Jbhughes
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 254
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:11 am Post subject: |
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I've got a VN licence and the only time I've actually used it was as I.D. for something totally unrelated. Best story I can share is a Viet Kieu girl who got stopped for not wearing a helmet. She just started speaking English to them and heard them say in VNese 'nguoi nuoc ngoai' and waived her on!
Having helmets stolen has been mentioned a couple of times in this thread. Is it common in Saigon that helmets will be stolen when locked under the seat? I ask because next time I go, I'll bear it in mind. |
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I'm With Stupid
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Posts: 432
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| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| I always lock mine under the seat after mine was stolen in the past. But I have a friend who had a helmet stolen (one of those retro ones that covers the ears) and they actually cut the strap to get it out from under the seat. It wasn't even that expensive. I have a cheap helmet for every day and an expensive one for longer journeys if I'm going to be driving faster. |
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Dekadan
Joined: 09 Dec 2011
Posts: 95
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| If you've got a Honda Wave, or any similar bike with the space under the seat, then I'd lock it in there. Nobody can see it, so it's not a temptation. It's a major pain the butt to come back to your bike and find your helmet gone. I know I felt naked whenever I had to ride without one. |
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ragazzo gallese
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 47
Location: Saigon, Vietnam
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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A few weeks ago, I was driving along in the car lane (my Western logic still tells me to get in the left lane if you want to turn left) of a main artery in D1 when I got the magic wand from a a cop collecting for the police benevolent fund. Unfortunately, he spoke enough English to demand 500k from me, but after I pulled out the discount card (VN driving licence), the fine magically dropped to 100, which went straight in his pocket. Meanwhile, hundreds of bikes were streaming past in the car lane.
Fast forward to today, when I was almost taken out by a brainless bling-boy showing off to his bimbo girlfriend on a pimped Honda Airblade. He ran a red light at the junction of two dark streets, and turned into the wrong lane, right into my path. This goes to show how effective road policing is here. It also shows that although a circus bear can learn to ride a tricycle, it takes months of lessons, stringent testing, and a culture of road safety to prepare a person to be a sensible, aware and considerate driver. Driving in a figure of eight doesn't really cut it. |
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Dekadan
Joined: 09 Dec 2011
Posts: 95
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| ragazzo gallese wrote: |
A few weeks ago, I was driving along in the car lane (my Western logic still tells me to get in the left lane if you want to turn left) of a main artery in D1 when I got the magic wand from a a cop collecting for the police benevolent fund. Unfortunately, he spoke enough English to demand 500k from me, but after I pulled out the discount card (VN driving licence), the fine magically dropped to 100, which went straight in his pocket. Meanwhile, hundreds of bikes were streaming past in the car lane.
Fast forward to today, when I was almost taken out by a brainless bling-boy showing off to his bimbo girlfriend on a pimped Honda Airblade. He ran a red light at the junction of two dark streets, and turned into the wrong lane, right into my path. This goes to show how effective road policing is here. It also shows that although a circus bear can learn to ride a tricycle, it takes months of lessons, stringent testing, and a culture of road safety to prepare a person to be a sensible, aware and considerate driver. Driving in a figure of eight doesn't really cut it. |
It was only after going to Viet Nam that I realized how well the western driving training system is working. While there are a goodly number of decent drivers in Sai Gon, there was a far higher proportion of completely counter-to-self-preservation decisions that I had seen made there than back home (texting while riding? Sounds smart! Driving the wrong way down a street at night with your high beam headlights on so that you blind oncoming traffic? Perfect!). I can only conclude that it's our system that's the difference.
Also, it doesn't help that a large proportion of their population is under the age of 30 (I think I remember hearing around 65%. Compare that to North America with it's Baby Boom generation resulting in probably 65% being over 60). People in their teens and early twenties generally have a feeling of invincibility. Put that on a motorcycle, and you've got a recipe for accidents. How many people have been injured or killed by street racers? What is the point of street racing? Nothing would get me more angry than seeing an idiot driving. Some people just don't get that when you drive, you have a responsibility. You need to be aware of what's going on around you and do your best to make sure you don't kill or even injure someone else.
Anyway, I guess I'm done ranting. If you're out there riding in Viet Nam, please be safe. Wear proper safety equipment (helmet on properly!) and drive safely. You don't just have to watch out for yourself, you have to watch out for the crazy ones that make bad decisions. |
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The Mad Hatter
Joined: 16 May 2010
Posts: 165
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:56 am Post subject: |
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| ragazzo gallese wrote: |
A few weeks ago, I was driving along in the car lane (my Western logic still tells me to get in the left lane if you want to turn left) of a main artery in D1 when I got the magic wand from a a cop collecting for the police benevolent fund. Unfortunately, he spoke enough English to demand 500k from me, but after I pulled out the discount card (VN driving licence), the fine magically dropped to 100, which went straight in his pocket. Meanwhile, hundreds of bikes were streaming past in the car lane.
Fast forward to today, when I was almost taken out by a brainless bling-boy showing off to his bimbo girlfriend on a pimped Honda Airblade. He ran a red light at the junction of two dark streets, and turned into the wrong lane, right into my path. This goes to show how effective road policing is here. It also shows that although a circus bear can learn to ride a tricycle, it takes months of lessons, stringent testing, and a culture of road safety to prepare a person to be a sensible, aware and considerate driver. Driving in a figure of eight doesn't really cut it. |
What a good post!
The only thing I would add is if you have the correct documentation then signal for them to get out the paperwork. In the meantime take out your own notebook and pen and start to take down all the details: time, location, police bike number etc. (Oh, don't forget to pocket your keys until it's all over, usually in the time it takes for them to see you're no mug) |
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I'm With Stupid
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Posts: 432
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Dekadan wrote: |
| It was only after going to Viet Nam that I realized how well the western driving training system is working. While there are a goodly number of decent drivers in Sai Gon, there was a far higher proportion of completely counter-to-self-preservation decisions that I had seen made there than back home (texting while riding? Sounds smart! Driving the wrong way down a street at night with your high beam headlights on so that you blind oncoming traffic? Perfect!). I can only conclude that it's our system that's the difference. |
There are certain things that would definitely be helped by proper driver training, but I think a lot of the problems would still occur. After all, you're not going to tell me that people need to be trained to know that it's dangerous to go through a red light. They just don't care, and more importantly, don't think they're going to get caught. People back home regularly break laws that they don't think they'll get caught for. The majority of people regularly speed, for example (although because of decent training, most people know when it's safer to do so).
I think the main things that would change with proper driver training would be the ability to anticipate problems on the road and act accordingly. Things like moving to the left if you want to turn left, indicating, using mirrors, speeding up if you want to change lanes, checking over your shoulder, etc.
The one thing that always makes me laugh though is the apparent paradox between people who will go through lots of effort to get to the front at the traffic lights (or maybe even go through them), but then still drive so slow that it makes no difference. I suppose I should be grateful that most people drive really slowly, but the rest of the behaviour from some people seems to suggest that they're in a big hurry all the time. |
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kurtz
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 518
Location: Phaic Tan
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:24 am Post subject: |
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I wish that the cops would start pulling people over for texting while riding, my number one HATE right now.
There is utterly appalling driving behavior on the roads. Why would someone overtake you on the left while you have your left indicator on and you're on the left side of the lane? Utter stupidity! Luckily the VN don't suffer from road rage like we do or else it would be a blood bath out there. |
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snollygoster
Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 478
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:58 am Post subject: Texting death |
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Down in the Mekong, I was in a bus when a lady with her kid in a high chair (Yes- you've seen it-havent you?) on her Dylan went through a red light, whilst texting, straight into the side of the bus I was in.
Kid had no helmet but mum did, so the childs head splattered like a watermelon and mum survived to be dragged away by the Police.
Pretty upsetting to see-People who text while driving a bike have to be insane. |
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mark_in_saigon
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 837
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:17 am Post subject: "thinning the herd" |
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Some of the alternative newspapers in the U.S. used to run a column by that name, thinning the herd. Usually the story would reference some stupid behavior of people and the deadly consequences. I think they would mostly be unusual events, texting and driving here is not at all unusual of course, nor is all other manner of ridiculous driving.
We can all go on forever about all this crazy stuff, and so many of our threads end up being stories about these kinds of things. I just wonder if we can ever really accept it all the way they seem to. Maybe they just don't have a choice and they know it and so they accept it even though they don't like it. I think it is much harder for us to reach that state, as we always have our previous lives as a prism to view this thru. I am trying to reach a higher (or is it lower?) level in my acceptance of it all. I don't know if it is a good sign or bad, but I have noticed that I find that driving a moto in HCMC has changed from being whatever it was in my first years here to now being something more like a mind altering experience. If I was younger, I would probably paint my hair red and throw away my helmet. Maybe it is time to get out while I am still alive. |
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Oh My God
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 273
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:14 am Post subject: Re: "thinning the herd" |
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| mark_in_saigon wrote: |
We can all go on forever about all this crazy stuff, and so many of our threads end up being stories about these kinds of things. I just wonder if we can ever really accept it all the way they seem to. Maybe they just don't have a choice and they know it and so they accept it even though they don't like it. I think it is much harder for us to reach that state, as we always have our previous lives as a prism to view this thru. I am trying to reach a higher (or is it lower?) level in my acceptance of it all. I don't know if it is a good sign or bad, but I have noticed that I find that driving a moto in HCMC has changed from being whatever it was in my first years here to now being something more like a mind altering experience. If I was younger, I would probably paint my hair red and throw away my helmet. Maybe it is time to get out while I am still alive. |
Good point, accepting the inevitable is certainly the best choice if you're going to stay here. It's really quite a forgiving society, I guess it has a lot to do with that Buddhist belief that when it's your time to go - you go. But until then, it's not time.
Leaving is certainly an option but then, what's the point of discussing that here?
I find that there's a form of VN traffic courtesy that's helpful but very VERY subtle and may take years to learn or less IF you're very observant. My old ex-partner "Texasblu" wrote about this on Saigonesl.com in a thread something like "VN defensive driving 101" which I thought was very helpful but was not liked by most of the old-time posters in that forum. But his words have rang true time and time again. His philosophy of driving has made my life on the roads much more palatable. |
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mark_in_saigon
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 837
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:58 am Post subject: traffic courtesy |
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| I do agree that there is a form of courtesy, but from what I can see, a large number of these guys ignore any form of courtesy and just do not give a flock about whizzing off any and all. I especially see that from trucks, buses, cars and taxis, but also see it from a fair number of motorbike drivers. I think if there was a form of courtesy that was understood, accepted and generally followed, then we could clue in to it and follow it, and feel better about the deal. |
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BenE
Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 321
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:15 am Post subject: |
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Was watching how this topic develops and thought I should add this news report. Looks like our local officer was a pretty determined guy.
http://www.thanhniennews.com/index/pages/20120411-vietnam-officer-holds-on-bus-wipers-to-stop-traffic-violator-escaping.aspx
I personally have recently had a few incidents with the police. One tried to fine me 400,000 VND because my VN license was only for class B. In the end though they gave up because my Vietnamese wasn't good enough to understand the procedure and understand clearly what I was being fined for 
Still I think it's time for me to get that paperwork through and drive in a circle. |
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