Job Discussion Forums

[Dedicated]

Going back to cb400's first post.....

Always get somebody to check your spelling, as mistakes on a CV can very easily lose you the job.

In the OP, you write " cirruculium" and "per say". As somebody who has to look at CVs before interviews,I would have binned such a CV.

Sorry to be so harsh, but it's true.

[cb400]

Thank you for everyone who has given some input on this.

Yes, I agree having a degree is limiting my options though until now I have been hired/promoted based on performance and what I could bring to the school. Now, I am really now looking at some options to do a degree or upgrade qualifications while supporting myself. I didn't want to turn this into a degree vs no degree debate as I understand the value invested in getting one, though an argument can be made how a 22 with no teaching exp and an unrelated degree is better suited to teaching that someone with several years exp in the teaching field.

Really, appreciate the input, it's nice to know I am not the only one who has it a hard time doing this. I love what I do and what to continue it, so I am really looking at a move and going where the work is even though it is not my first choice.


Cheers

[tttompatz]

Just to be sure... this is not a "what makes a better teacher, one with a degree or one without."

It is a simple matter of legality.

The degree is fast becoming a requirement (government rules) rather than an option for those who want to teach. You certainly can't teach in your own country without teacher certification and/or a degree.

Even where you are you can always take credit courses and build up to a degree. It may not be worth much back home but it meets the requirements for visa issuance post 2015 in SE Asia.

Life has moved on and you have not kept up with your professional development. Now your choices are either get a degree (there are lots of decent options for distance learning depending on your nationality - especially if you are not American) or move on to the smaller pastures where it is not a requirement (albeit the grass may not be any greener there either).

.

[Glenski]

Are you stuck?
Simple answer, yes.

How deep?
Depends on where you want to go, and whether you prefer a DOS or teaching job.

I agree with tttompatz. This is not an issue of whether you are just as good a teacher without a degree. It's a matter of whether you can satisfy immigration requirements for a visa, and equally importantly whether you will even be considered by an employer. Spelling aside (just for the moment, because I would hesitate at hiring an English teacher who can't spell properly), you also just made a mistake by writing "I agree having a degree is limiting my options" when you should have written "not having a degree is limiting my options".

[nomad soul]

[bharrell]

"More or less. Just as much as a real degree I'd say. Interviews are conducted, not because certs are mistrusted but that in the end, it's the person, not the paperwork that'll do the job. "

True, but the fake degree holder is a liar and a cheat. If they will cheat on one thing, they will cheat on another. They can't be trusted.
The example of the incompetent PhD holder being outperformed by the guy with no degree is a logical fallacy, inferring that college is a waste of time and doesn't add any value to the individual.
Many companies require a degree for other than visa related reasons for professional positions.. Getting through college requires commitment, persistence and some level of smarts. And University teaches people to follow directions. The guy without a degree is usually missing something that the degree holder has.

[Glenski]

Just to reiterate what Christian St. Bacon wrote, in case it slipped by, Japan will give you a work visa with 3 or more years of related experience and no degree. So, that fits your current situation.

Now, the hard news. You need the job first. After an employer agrees to hire you and to be your visa sponsor, you get the visa.

So, disregard any ads that say no visa sponsorship is offered.

However, you must be aware that in Japan, the market is very flooded with experienced and inexperienced teachers and wannabes. It is a buyer's market, and you will usually have to be here physically first in order to look around. Nobody here is likely to hire you from where you are now, save for a rare Skype interview, and that doesn't give you the full story of what you would be getting into.

So, if you decide to come here to look around, that will provide greater opportunities. Next barrier is the timing. March is the peak season for hiring, and April is the start date for most jobs. You can get hired at other times of the year, but it will be harder. Also, setting yourself up in Japan will cost money. Figure on needing US$4000-5000 to tide you over until you get hired, a visa issued, and a first paycheck in your hands. That could very easily take 3 months.

The types of jobs I am talking about would quite possibly be entry level, despite your experience simply because Japanese employers do not always recognize experience outside of Japan. I'm not saying this is 100% for certain because some do, but you have to be mentally prepared for the eventuality, and it will slap you in the face some/most of the time here. Entry level means conversation school instructor or ALT for a (lousy IMO) dispatch agency, and your boss may be an eikaiwa manager who is unfamiliar with teaching (interested only in the money), or an ALT agency that is looking to skim profits and not provide you with much in the way of support or benefits. Neither of these situations is a guarantee, but IMO very possible.

Just be sure your resume and cover letters have no typos or other errors.

One more point. You wrote: "I didn't want to turn this into a degree vs no degree debate as I understand the value invested in getting one, though an argument can be made..."
My advice is to stop and put a period in this sentence after the word "one". Get the degree or be prepared for a hard journey. What you will be taught can only make you better. You can't possibly think you know it all right now, I hope, despite what you have gained from the school of hard knocks.

[PelemPelem]

ditto

... and despite earlier inferences otherwise, lower qualifications do not necessarily effect a more effective and intelligent teacher.

[LongShiKong]

[Glenski]

[LongShiKong]

[Denim-Maniac]

For the OP - as everyone else says. Do the degree. I had to do the same thing and was lucky enough to have the right kind of job in China that a) employed me without a degree, and b) offered my lots of free time to actually study.

It does take some time to complete of course...but it does seem that its the only way to stay in the game.

Regarding some of the other comments in this thread, I have a little anecdote about the phd vs. 'unqualified' teachers. My Chinese TEFL experience covers 3 employers and a little over 3 years, and the only time I have ever seen a 'runner', was a phd holder! We teach small classes of adult students for 90 mins per day, and as many of us do, she did 'Introductions' for her first class. I dont know quite what she was doing, but on the fourth day I asked her students how they were getting on, and they weren't happy as her 'introductions' were still going on. Thats 4 x 90 minutes of introductions to just a handful of students.

They then went to our education department, who advised her that the students weren't happy and introductions should take perhaps 20 minutes of the first class. She didnt take this very well and vanished that same night, leaving a rather unpleasant note in her apartment.

Off topic, and not really relevant because of visa issues ... but I'd take a CELTA holder over a phd holder 99 times out of 100!

[bharrell]

"Bull tissue! The fact you capitalized university suggests not only your ignorance of capitalization 'directions'-- but furthermore your reverence for academia. Incidentally, knowledge of capitalization was part of the standard English proficiency test (for native English speakers) to even attend college classes in my day--they didn't teach such directions then.) "

Well, if I had been preparing a document of some importance, I likely would have noticed the capitalization of university or not, who knows.
To the best I can determine, Imply is perfectly appropriate as I used it. For more on this, follow the link: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/infer
You assume I teach English, I guess. Not so.

How much is higher education worth in cold hard money? A college master's degree is worth $1.3 million more in lifetime earnings than a high school diploma, according to a recent report from the U.S. Census Bureau.

The report titled "The Big Payoff: Educational Attainment and Synthetic Estimates of Work-Life Earnings" reveals that over an adult's working life, high school graduates can expect, on average, to earn $1.2 million; those with a bachelor's degree, $2.1 million; and people with a master's degree, $2.5 million.

But facts don't change the minds of many. There are always isolated personal examples which can erroneously be extrapolated to support a position.
I have a Masters degree, and I it has served me well. It has opened doors to better paying jobs as I have some legitimate credentials to present. It doesn't guarantee performance, of course, but people are more inclined to give me a shot. The guy with no degree is swimming upstream. He might be the best teacher in the world, but not having a degree is a liability. Better to have one than not.

[Glenski]

[naturegirl321]