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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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 Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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Dear JerkyBoy,
ultraman111's right. WIth no multiple-entry visa and no iqama (all you'll have is your passport is a "work visit" visa, good for only one exit), you won't be leaving until you have to go to Bahrain to get a "new work visit visa." (probably 6 months after you arrive.)
Sorry.
Regards,
John |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| JerkyBoy wrote: |
| What I want to know is can I leave the country for a weekend away within the term of the "work visit" visa by obtaining an exit visa, as the recruiter has asserted? |
You do not need an exit visa to leave the country if you have a business/work visit visa. You just leave. Period. That cancels out your visa.
| and also wrote: |
| Or can I just work illegally for 3 months, head to the airport after night fall and fly to Thailand, before returning triumphally with a new "legit" job on account of the conspicuous WASTA of my new employer, shortly thereafter? |
With a business visit visa, you're working illegally anyway. If you leave the country, the only way you can reenter KSA to work on a (legal) employment visa with a new employer, is by returning to your home country (from Thailand or wherever you end up) and going through the tedious process of completing the required medical exam and lab tests, having your degree authenticated, and obtaining a certified criminal background report. All associated costs will have to be paid upfront, out of your own pocket. Also, be aware that the employer, through the appropriate Saudi govt agency, determines the type of visa you should get. Generally, employers who hire directly submit a block visa request to the proper Saudi authority for employment visas for new employees; whereas, many recruiting agencies like to go the cheaper, quicker business visit visa route. Again, one type of visa is for valid employment; the other for doing business in the Kingdom.
It's not about wasta but about being hired to work legally and by the better employers. |
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JerkyBoy
Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 485
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| You do not need an exit visa to leave the country if you have a business/work visit visa. You just leave. Period. That cancels out your visa. |
So the recruiter is lieing, essentially?
| nomad soul wrote: |
| With a business visit visa, the only way you can reenter KSA to work on a (legal) employment visa with a new employer, is by returning to your home country and going through the tedious process of completing the medical exam and lab tests, having your degree authenticated, and obtaining a certified criminal background report. All costs will have to be paid upfront, by you. The employer, determines the type of visa you should get. Generally, employers submit a block visa request to the proper Saudi authority for employment visas for new employees; recruiting agencies like to go the cheaper, quicker business visit visa route. Again, one type of visa is for valid employment; the other for doing business in the Kingdom. |
What I want to know is, if I end up having to do a runner on my employer, who will have shelled out for my flight, etc., and lay low in Thailand for a couple of weeks, can I then come back into KSA to work for someone else?
What happens to my KSA job prospects if I bail on a contract? Would I be blacklisted?
This tedious process you speak of - how long does it take from start to finish? |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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Q: So the recruiter is lieing, essentially?
A: Some recruiters intentionally (and carelessly) tell you what you want to hear, while others are simply clueless (and careless) about Saudi law and the passport regulations.
Q: What happens to my KSA job prospects if I bail on a contract?
A: Nothing, unless you stop applying for positions. Also, know that your employment contract is essentially invalid (i.e., unenforceable) if you're on a business visit visa. Under Saudi law, you do not have the right to work or reside in KSA with this type of visa.
Q: Would I be blacklisted?
A: Seriously, there's no list---official or unofficial---of every expat business visit visa holder who quietly departed KSA early without saying goodbye. You're on a short-term visa anyway. The company will be more concerned about recruiting another warm body to replace you and won't even be thinking about you. Business as usual.
Q: This tedious employment visa process you speak of - how long does it take from start to finish?
A: It depends on your country of origin and what documents you need. Check the visa requirements on the website of the Saudi embassy located in your home country.
But what about the bigger issue? From day one, you've said you're only going to KSA (to an entry-level position) to make as much money as possible. Yet, you're already asking about countries to go to for R&R and at the same time, also contemplating a quick escape if things don't work out. Both of these plans will cost you money, which is counterproductive to your motivation for working in the Kingdom. Moreover, departing after working for such a short time leaves you with no income and no money to live off of, which could be for an indeterminate amount of time.
Maybe you need to rethink going to Saudi Arabia since it ultimately may not be a good fit for you given the concerns and questions you've presented. Perhaps China or Korea will better suit you. |
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JerkyBoy
Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 485
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| Some recruiters intentionally (and carelessly) tell you what you want to hear, while others are simply clueless (and careless) about Saudi law and the passport regulations. |
Yes, that seems to fit with my experience so far.
| nomad soul wrote: |
| Also, know that your employment contract is essentially invalid (i.e., unenforceable) if you're on a business visit visa. Under Saudi law, you do not have the right to work or reside in KSA with this type of visa. |
So they can stiff you on wages and other stuff and get away with it? Should I be expecting problems of this nature?
| nomad soul wrote: |
| Seriously, there's no list---official or unofficial---of every expat business visit visa holder who quietly departed KSA early without saying goodbye. |
Well, that's one positive. This provides me with some leeway.
| nomad soul wrote: |
| But what about the bigger issue? From day one, you've said you're only going to KSA (to an entry-level position) to make as much money as possible. Yet, you're already asking about countries to go to for R&R and at the same time, also contemplating a quick escape if things don't work out. Both of these plans will cost you money, which is counterproductive to your motivation for working in the Kingdom. Moreover, departing after working for such a short time leaves you with no income and no money to live off of, which could be for an indeterminate amount of time. |
R&R is if I last there - I'm sure you'll agree it's a worthwhile investment.
Plan B - the quick getaway - would be after some months. By then I would have earned more money than I would in other countries so it's all relative. I can kepp applying for other jobs inside and outside KSA while I am working and earning. The cost of a plane ticket is no big deal. Obviously I would like for it to work out and to make lots of money but I have to plan for all eventualities.
| nomad soul wrote: |
| Maybe you need to rethink going to Saudi Arabia since it ultimately may not be a good fit for you given the concerns and questions you've presented. Perhaps China or Korea will better suit you. |
They don't pay enough so while they would suit me better, they won't solve my long-term financial problems - they will probably make matters worse.
If I had the choice of Japan or KSA, it would be Japan every time, but I want to make some decent money. That's why I'm headed for this "culture of death" (as another poster put it). |
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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:10 am Post subject: |
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jerkyboy...you ask tons of questions and when you receive legitimate comon sense answers...you seem to always have a quick response refuting or twisting or altering the common sense answers people give you...many from people who are actually working or have worked in KSA for many years.
For example: nomad soul provided you with real answers more than once and yet you continue with retorical questions to the poster's response...
Judging by what is known of you so far, you seem unqualified for any decent employment in KSA, yet you are determined to head into a dubious situation...the fact is you will never completely know until you get here...and based on the many questions you have asked and have been answered honestly only confirms, at least for me, that you should know by now what you are getting yourself into...so for goodness sake...just get on with it...  You can change the question as many times as you want...the answers are going to be the same...
RE: your employment contract...YES! There is a real possibility your employer may shaft you! You take your chances....It has been said again and again and again...you are entering KSA at your own risk...with a business visa. The writing is on the wall...I think this has been made quite clear.
Maybe it's just me, but with all due respect, you are beginning to sound like a troll...having a bit of a lark ....leading people down some garden path. |
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EnglishDoYouSpeakIt
Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 151
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:08 am Post subject: |
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| Companies can extend visit visas without the visa holder leaving the country. At least they could a year ago. Good if you don't like the hassle, bad if you miss alcohol. |
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JerkyBoy
Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 485
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| cmp45 wrote: |
| jerkyboy...you ask tons of questions and when you receive legitimate comon sense answers... |
Yes, I've gained a lot of useful information.
| cmp45 wrote: |
| you seem unqualified for any decent employment in KSA, yet you are determined to head into a dubious situation...the fact is you will never completely know until you get here... for goodness sake...just get on with it |
Just trying to be thorough. I should be there in about a week. I'm waiting on them.
| cmp45 wrote: |
| RE: your employment contract...YES! There is a real possibility your employer may shaft you! It has been said again and again and again... |
Some people actually like these jobs. I try to get a cross section of opinion and like to hear from individuals about their own personal experiences. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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Dear cmp45,
I don't think he's a troll at all - although I will admit that JerkyBoy is exceptional in the amount of "due diligence" he's attempting to accomplish on this forum. I can see why one might think that it's "overdue diligence."
But I like the fact that he's trying to get as much info as he can BEFORE he goes, trying to sift the "probably reliable" from the "unlikely" responses.
Of course, no matter how much research one does, how a teacher fares there will depend on 1. the employer, and 2. the teacher's personality /character.
And my guess, from reading so many of JerkyBoy's posts, is that he'll do OK. He's got a sense of humor and seems to be pretty patient - two qualities that will come in very handy  .
Regards,
John |
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JerkyBoy
Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 485
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| johnslat wrote: |
| I don't think he's a troll at all - although I will admit that JerkyBoy is exceptional in the amount of "due diligence" he's attempting to accomplish on this forum. I can see why one might think that it's "overdue diligence." |
Spot on. Many of my plans have gone wrong in the past so now I tend to try to over-compensate, to avoid a repeat.
| johnslat wrote: |
| But I like the fact that he's trying to get as much info as he can BEFORE he goes, trying to sift the "probably reliable" from the "unlikely" responses. |
Intelligence gathering. Gleaning the truth of the matter.
| johnslat wrote: |
| Of course, no matter how much research one does, how a teacher fares there will depend on 1. the employer, and 2. the teacher's personality /character. |
I am worried about no. 1 because I hate that feeling that regardless of one's own strenous efforts, you are not in control and the incompetence or callousness will drag you down and throw a spanner in the works. I don't want others to stand in my way and sometimes it is unavoidable. Thailand was a great education.
| johnslat wrote: |
| And my guess, from reading so many of JerkyBoy's posts, is that he'll do OK. He's got a sense of humor and seems to be pretty patient - two qualities that will come in very handy |
Yes, black comedy is where it's at. I have plenty of experience to fall back on.
I'm actually dieing to know what the food is like, since that is likely to provide a healthy distraction. It's a weird feeling since KSA is one of the last places I'd choose to go and at the same time I am raring to go and having to sit and twiddle my thumbs. How odd!
I know I'll meet some interesting teacher types who have travelled so this is another adventure, of sorts. |
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JerkyBoy
Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 485
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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I have genuinely applied for jobs in North Korea, Kabul and Rwanda (BC jobs)
Just missed out on the Rwanda job (last month). Although I am friends with the Project Leader, the MoD insisted on a DELTA or military experience.
KSA could work for me in terms of the isolation and doing distance learning quals.
Let's just say, it looks good on paper  |
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JerkyBoy
Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 485
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Oh, I forgot to mention greed. Callousness, incompetence and greed. |
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