Job Discussion Forums

[rainbowprof]

Oh well I hear functional literacy in the US is at an all time low. Graduates often can't fill out government forms. Let's not look to the ME for standards for low achievers

[moonpie]

Listen Mr. Rainbow, the dumbest kids in the States know the difference between a planet and a star. My students here do not when they are pointed out to them in the sky at night. The dumbest kids in the States do not question the past existence of dinosaurs. These folks here do. There is a vast difference between unknowing in the West and unknowing here in the East. The laziest kids in the West may have had a bad year or two in school, but the majority of the students I have taught in the Gulf have had one bad year of school repeated twelve times. We could go on and on, but I think most rational people who read this get the point. Do not even think there is any comparisons in the levels of ignorance between the two civilizations.

[johnslat]

Dear moonpie.

Evolution, anyone? "According to a Newsweek poll done in march of 2007:

Only 13% of Americans believe in naturalistic evolution (that is that God had no part in evolution)

However, 48% of Americans believe that God created "humans pretty much in the present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so"

30% of Americans took the middle ground responding that they believed "Humans developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God guided this process"

9% remained unsure.

And it seems that this poll is not a fluke as many other polls from different polling companies have reported very similar findings. Go to polling report and look around at some of the other polls if you'd like."

http://collegepolitico.hubpages.com/hub/Poll-Most-Americans-Dont-Believe-Evolution

The data on thе domestic front, aѕ well, arе troubling indeed. 7-million people suffer from illiteracy in America аrе illiterate wіth 50% being unable tо read books written аt an 8th grade level. Twenty percent, moreover, cannot read аt а 5th grade level and arе considered functionally illiterate. Furthermore, 30-million Americans сannоt read simple sentences whiсh render them unable tо read stories to thеir children. There arе evеn mоrе sobering statistics, however.

The Negative Impacts оf Illiteracy on Individuals� Employability

Half of the unemployed 16-21 years of age are functionally illiterate.
20% of thе working population in thе U.S. cаnnot read at the level required to earn а living wage.
27% аrе unable to fill оut job applications becаuѕе оf poor reading and writing skills.
Three-quarters оf аll jobs in the U.S. nowadays require а 9
th grade-level reading ability, or higher.
75% of thoѕе who live оn welfare are unable to read.
46%-51% of adults in thе U.S., who fall well below the individual threshold poverty level, havе great difficulty іn reading or dо nоt read at all.

http://illiteracyinamerica.com/

Many American kids don't know what the equal sign means

http://www.thesudburystar.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2706463&archive=true

And here are some interesting things that the American college class of 2014 think they know:

http://www.beloit.edu/mindset/2014/

E.G. 20: DNA fingerprinting and maps of the human genome have always existed.

Hey, we ain't no slouches when it comes to illiteracy.

Regards,
John

[rainbowprof]

Dear moonpea, I respect your opinions in the matter, but I would like to comment that the fact that one cannot comprehend a class conducted in English does not necessarily define one as a fool nor an ignorant person. I wonder if the questions you asked were clearly understood by your students. Also, even though others may not have the vast repository of knowledge that you no doubt possess does not mean that their knowledge or experiences are inconsequential. Maybe they are more knowledgeable in areas outside of your knowledge base. I suspect they are fluent in at least Arabic. Perhaps your Arabic skills are not as well developed as theirs, for example.

And John, those are very interesting, though not entirely surprising, statistics. They may hit a raw nerve for some. Is it possible that the mighty United States has an almost imperceptible flaw in it's fabric? The mind boggles.

Moonpea, it sounds like you come from paradise where ignorance does not exist. I am impressed. Nay, overwhelmed. You seem like a very tolerant person and a caring, sensitive teacher and exponent of your culture. I hope you get a chance to relax today and enjoy the beauty of your current location. If it's any consolation, my students- I am currently responsible for over 250 of them this semester- are somewhat of a challenge, but I'm reticent to label them or call them names. Their English level is generally quite poor and they don't respond very enthusiastically to my lessons, as a whole. I laugh in the face of adversity. It's great to be alive.

[veiledsentiments]

[moonpie]

My pen name is Moonpie, not Moonpea. You missed the entire point of what I am trying to say. I know children in the West have problems. I know the population falls short in some educational circles. What you fail to comprehend is that the levels of ignorance here are as far below an F as an A is above an F. The levels of ignorance are at the top of the fail mark vs. the levels seen here.

If the surveys found by Slatterly were indications of reality, we are doomed, but I suspect things back in the West aren't nearly as bad as painted by some.

Moon

[johnslat]

Dear moonpie,

Actually, it's Slattery - but that's OK

Having been teaching in the States for the past nine years (including Head Start, 5th and 6th grade, junior high & high school - as well as ESL,) I'm sorry to say that I think the level of "common knowledge" is very scary,
Most of my students at EVERY level haven't known, for example, how many states there are in the US.

Here's an article that sums it up pretty well:

Students in U.S. high schools spend their days studying history, geography, and mathematics.
But one intrepid student reporter who wanted to know how much basic knowledge his classmates had experienced a comically tragic response.
Most of his classmates didn�t even know who the vice president of the country was. One student guessed Osama bin Laden, while another proudly stated that it was former president Bill Clinton.
The video, entitled Lunch Scholars, shows the fellow student quizzing his classmates over lunch hour.
He asks them basic general knowledge questions, like asking them to name what war won the U.S. its independence.
The majority of students responded with dead air. When prompted, one chirruped in, �The Korean War!� and another thought the Civil War was when America declared its freedom.
One girl answered the correct answer (the Revolutionary War) when heavily prompted.
The video also tests geography and other common knowledge among high school students, like naming a country that begins with a �U.�
Students were quick to guess �Uganda� � but many missed on the most obvious country � the United States.
Though some commenters on the YouTube video say the students interviewed are �complete idiots,� it brings up a more serious question about the education system in the U.S.
According to a recent study, the U.S. places behind 31 countries in math proficiency and behind 16 in reading.
A 2010 study showed that only nine per cent of fourth graders could correctly identify a picture of Abraham Lincoln.
The National Assessment of Educational Progress study also showed that only 32 per cent of eighth graders could identify an advantage of U.S. troops over the British in the Revolutionary War.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2096227/The-vice-president-U-S--Bill-Clinton-Shocking-video-shows-high-school-students-woefully-uninformed.html

I strongly suspect that many of them would have trouble with this one, too:

"What color is the White House?"



As I said - SCARY.

And are you familiar with Jay Leno's segment called "Jaywalking"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8I30k3ChKw&feature=related

Regards,
John

[moonpie]

John, has it been nine years since you left Saudi Arabia? No, if so then time really flies. you mention articles and Jaywalking. Why not ask your own students some basic questions and see for yourself if those articles are accurate?

[johnslat]

Dear moonpie,

Indeed it has been - I took my "Final Exit" in 2003. Of course, sometimes it feels like just yesterday, but then, as they say, time flies when you're having fun
I have asked my students some "apparently not-so-common -knowledge" questions:

"Most of my students at EVERY level haven't known, for example, how many states there are in the US."

Some other examples: What's the solar system? How many planets are in the solar system? What ocean is Hawaii in? How many days in a leap year? etc.

Again, 75 - 90% got them wrong or couldn't give ANY answer.

Nowadays, I'm teaching strictly ESL but I guess I could try it with those classes, too. But not US history; that wouldn't be fair.

Actually, a component of our ESL classes is Civics, so, while they might not have known such stuff as "How many branches of government are there in the US." when they began the class, they know it when they leave. In fact. I'll bet they know more civics than your "average US citizen on the street." Example: Can you tell me (without googling) how many representatives are in the House of Representative? My students can

(cheat sheet: 435 )

Regards,
John

[moonpie]

Man, I remember when your avatar was that waving kid in the classroom. Time does fly so fast. You went to New Mexico I presume? I am returning to North Carolina and I am not returning back to the Middle East. I managed to buy and rennovate an apartment building and I bought a seven acre farm cash.

Moon

[Nolan Chance]

Although I applaud Rainbowprof for reminding us that ME students with only average linguistic gifts are required to negotiate complex material in a foreign language, and also John Slat for reminding us that ignorance is found elsewhere, we should not deny some of the problems that Moon discusses, and nor should Middle Easterners who want to improve.

The causes are complex, but at root I think Bernard Lewis' explanation of the whole malaise afflicting the Islamic world is a pretty good starting point.

http://www.amazon.com/What-Went-Wrong-Western-Response/dp/0195144201

However, the solution (if there is one) is not to be found in the almost joyous and worrying belittlement that emanates from Moonpie's posts.

[moonpie]

Dear Nolan, you have a good point. Joy ought not be gotten from the pain of other people/cultures.

Moon

[Sashadroogie]

[johnslat]

Dear Nolan Chance,

While Bernard Lewis enjoys an enviable reputation, I prefer Karen Armstrong, Edward Said, or John Esposito. Professor Lewis (credited - or blamed - with coining the phrase "The Clash of Civilizations"), like Samuel Huntington, who "borrowed" the phrase, seems, in my opinion, much too inclined to reduce extremely complex issues and entities (e.g identity, culture) to generalized stereotypes.

Dear moonpie,

Yup, I've been residing in Santa Fe (Holy Faith) since I returned, Congratulations on your (upcoming?) return home; North Carolina is a lovely place (well, most of it, that is; Camp Lejuene, New River, and Cherry Point, well, I'm not yearning to revisit them ).

Regards,
John

[Sashadroogie]

Edward W Said is a great writer. 'Orientalism', 'Culture and Imperialism' - excellent reads.

Karen Armstrong is so much more interesting to read than many others in her field.

Care to submit a few reviews, dear Johnslat?