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Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
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 Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 3:22 am Post subject: |
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To work in a colegio in Mexico, as a native-speaker you will need:
1. A TEFL cert.
2. MAYBE a degree.
3. Be at the right school, at the right time to get hired.
4. Be able to baby sit rich kids all day.
5. Work nights./weekends/holidays to meet deadlines and grade homework.
6. Inflate grades so that the kids who did nothing to actually earn such grades, their rich parents who paid so much for this so-called "education" and the admin (who will NEVER back you as a so-called pro TEFL'er when it involves unhappy parents/students which pay to get a piece of paper)will all be happy.
7. Turn a blind eye to the bribes that many teachers take.
8. Sell your soul.
9. Convince yourself that this is the way everything works in Mexico, so it's not a big deal. Your ideals, values and morals needed to "adapt" to the new ones of your adopted country.
10. Post about your TEFL "success story" and share it with others! |
My girlfriend just read that over my shoulder and had a good laugh. Let me amend the list for you for people who actually teach.
1. Possible starting point, but not the end point
2. At a colegio, a relevant degree is a must. If it isn't, you are working at McDonald's.
3. Right school, right time...yes, this is right. There has to be an opening.
4. If you don't have the right school or background, then you can go this route yes.
5. Welcome to being a teacher. You forgot time spent on PD days, further education, workshops and conferences abroad, and a whole host of other duties.
6. see #7
7. If rich parents have so little regard for teachers then why would they bother to bribe them? I thought nepotism and cronyism reigned supreme? I can see you haven't any experience in this so let me tell you how it actually works. School decides to build new auditorium/chapel/parking lot. School holds fundraiser. Rich parents pay hundreds of thousands of pesos into project, expect payback. Admin leans on some teachers when a relevant student comes up. You really can't have it both ways where you say a teacher is spat upon then also offered a handsome bribe. Think about it...
8. To each his own on this one.
9. If you came to Mexico looking to change it to your way of thinking then good luck to you and see you on the next boat out. If you came to Mexico pretending to be something you are not, then the consequences of your actions are pretty much down to karma are they not? If you came here to work, teach, and progress, then there is a path for you.
Mexico doesn't hand it to you. You have to work for it, just like anywhere else.
10. Not here. Take a good look around and see who doesn't post any more. |
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the peanut gallery
Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 264
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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Guy,
Past, present, and future government employees just laughed over my shoulder at your comment about nepotism and cronyism NOT reigning supreme.
I have found that its not the parents who offer bribes to teachers, its the students. Parents expect favours from schools in return for donations. This is not exclusive to Mexico. Students, in an attempt to hide bad grades from parents, bribe teachers. Parents operate at the high end of the chain, students the low end. |
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SpaceTone
Joined: 11 Jul 2010
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks everyone for your replies and advice, much appreciated.
It seems the general consensus is that ESL for adults is not the right path to make a relatively high, and stable, income.
University/colegio are the clear winners, financially at least. I quite like the idea of working with younger learners IF they want to learn (that was the main plus point of my experience teaching adults - pretty much all my students were genuinely interested and wanted to learn). It�s the youngsters who don�t want to be there that really puts me off. Maybe the bribes will take the edge off that (joking)
Are the colegio jobs mentioned just for teaching English as a language, or teaching all subjects in English?
And would there be any way to put a finance/economics background to use in colegios etc?
Thanks again.
ps - good spot, lieutenant! |
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EFLeducator
Joined: 16 Dec 2011
Posts: 595
Location: NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| the peanut gallery wrote: |
| Guy, Past, present, and future government employees just laughed over my shoulder at your comment about nepotism and cronyism NOT reigning supreme. |
Same here. 
It's alive and WELL in the colegios in Mexico City based upon my years of experience TEFLing and living there. Even the professional TEFLer's such as myself, cannot escape it.  |
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EFLeducator
Joined: 16 Dec 2011
Posts: 595
Location: NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| SpaceTone wrote: |
| It seems the general consensus is that ESL for adults is not the right path to make a relatively high, and stable, income. |
Not an accurate statement amigo. Adults is where the little money is in Mexico City. Colegios will work you to death and you'll be more of a babysitter than a real educator.
| SpaceTone wrote: |
| University/colegio are the clear winners, financially at least. |
Not really. Universities can let you go at a moments notice. While adult students can and DO cancel a LOT in Mexico City, they are still your best bet for a QUALITY lifestyle TEFLing there.
FAIR...& BALANCED. |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| the peanut gallery wrote: |
Guy,
Past, present, and future government employees just laughed over my shoulder at your comment about nepotism and cronyism NOT reigning supreme.
I have found that its not the parents who offer bribes to teachers, its the students. Parents expect favours from schools in return for donations. This is not exclusive to Mexico. Students, in an attempt to hide bad grades from parents, bribe teachers. Parents operate at the high end of the chain, students the low end. |
VERY TRUE!
I had students stuff money in my pockets, sometimes as much as $10,000 pesos at a time (nice way to supplement one's income if so inclined) if I asked what the heck they were doing...the students said it was a "joke". Sometimes they were very obvious about it and had no qualms. I learned a LOT about morals & values in Mexico or the lack of them. As I told my Ss, they were a reflection of their parents, a mirror so to speak, and their manners of speech, behavior, morals etc were all direct reflections of their parents... Many of them were very uncomfortable with that, but any changes in their actions were superficial and tempoary at best.
Last edited by Prof.Gringo on Mon May 07, 2012 4:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| SpaceTone wrote: |
Thanks everyone for your replies and advice, much appreciated.
It seems the general consensus is that ESL for adults is not the right path to make a relatively high, and stable, income.
University/colegio are the clear winners, financially at least. I quite like the idea of working with younger learners IF they want to learn (that was the main plus point of my experience teaching adults - pretty much all my students were genuinely interested and wanted to learn). It�s the youngsters who don�t want to be there that really puts me off. Maybe the bribes will take the edge off that (joking)
Are the colegio jobs mentioned just for teaching English as a language, or teaching all subjects in English?
And would there be any way to put a finance/economics background to use in colegios etc?
Thanks again.
ps - good spot, lieutenant! |
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the uni jobs are often no better than colegios. The Ss act the same, many of them do NOT want to study or learn English at all (it is often a requirement for certain degree majors) and they will offer a bribe just as quick for a better grade.
There are colegios that teach subjects in English, and yes, there are possibilities in those areas.
Much of the time, a colegio will pay better than a uni. |
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MotherF
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1450
Location: 17�48'N 97�46'W
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
I had students stuff money in my pockets, sometimes as much as $10,000 pesos at a time (nice way to supplement one's income if so inclined) if I asked what the heck they were doing...the students said it was a "joke". Sometimes they were very obvious about it and had no qualms. I learned a LOT about morals & values in Mexico or the lack of them. As I told my Ss, they were a reflection of their parents, a mirror so to speak, and their manners of speech, behavior, morals etc were all direct reflections of their parents... Many of them were very uncomfortable with that, but any change in their actions were superficial and tempoary at best. |
You would do well to not judge a country by the elite few who can afford to attend such a school. |
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Phil_K
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
| the peanut gallery wrote: |
Guy,
Past, present, and future government employees just laughed over my shoulder at your comment about nepotism and cronyism NOT reigning supreme.
I have found that its not the parents who offer bribes to teachers, its the students. Parents expect favours from schools in return for donations. This is not exclusive to Mexico. Students, in an attempt to hide bad grades from parents, bribe teachers. Parents operate at the high end of the chain, students the low end. |
VERY TRUE!
I had students stuff money in my pockets, sometimes as much as $10,000 pesos at a time (nice way to supplement one's income if so inclined) if I asked what the heck they were doing...the students said it was a "joke". Sometimes they were very obvious about it and had no qualms. I learned a LOT about morals & values in Mexico or the lack of them. As I told my Ss, they were a reflection of their parents, a mirror so to speak, and their manners of speech, behavior, morals etc were all direct reflections of their parents... Many of them were very uncomfortable with that, but any change in their actions were superficial and tempoary at best. |
I bet that went down like the proverbial lead balloon! |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| MotherF wrote: |
| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
I had students stuff money in my pockets, sometimes as much as $10,000 pesos at a time (nice way to supplement one's income if so inclined) if I asked what the heck they were doing...the students said it was a "joke". Sometimes they were very obvious about it and had no qualms. I learned a LOT about morals & values in Mexico or the lack of them. As I told my Ss, they were a reflection of their parents, a mirror so to speak, and their manners of speech, behavior, morals etc were all direct reflections of their parents... Many of them were very uncomfortable with that, but any change in their actions were superficial and tempoary at best. |
You would do well to not judge a country by the elite few who can afford to attend such a school. |
I don't see any better from the rest of Mexican society... Bribes are a way of life, laws are suggestions and education is seen as a waste of time for many, so, no I don't see any huge difference from the campesino to the middle income manager to the elite. Only in scope, scale and size. From a micro bus driver in the DF giving a few pesos bribe to the corrupt transit cops to the corrupt cops to their supervisors that demand a daily kickback to the high-level officials to the lawyers and judges that turn a blind eye and take their share of bribe money, it exists at every level of society and is ingrained in the culture. |
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the peanut gallery
Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 264
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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Sad but true. A "me today, you tomorrow" culture where the short term gain is seen as far more important than any vague concept of justice and morality is what i experience.
Saying that, at least here it is all out in the open and generally accepted. One knows where one stands. Other countries feign transparency yet are just as corrupt. Immorality is more sophisticated in the supposed first world. |
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EFLeducator
Joined: 16 Dec 2011
Posts: 595
Location: NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| the peanut gallery wrote: |
| A "me today, you tomorrow" culture where the short term gain is seen as far more important than any vague concept of justice and morality is what i experience. |
I experienced the same when I was living in Mexico City.  |
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EFLeducator
Joined: 16 Dec 2011
Posts: 595
Location: NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
| I don't see any better from the rest of Mexican society... Bribes are a way of life, laws are suggestions and education is seen as a waste of time |
Education is seen as a waste of time by many in Mexico City from what I experienced. I too taught at one of those colegios and the students there could have cared less about education. They were concerneed only with the next party. Don't believe me feel free to go and watch a class sometimes. The same was experienced with adult students as well. While they were more interested than the colegio kids, there was still an attitude of education is a waste of time. Colegios and teaching kids is not the answer if one is looking for a half way decent wage TEFLing in Mexico City.
| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
| From a micro bus driver in the DF giving a few pesos bribe to the corrupt transit cops to the corrupt cops to their supervisors that demand a daily kickback to the high-level officials to the lawyers and judges that turn a blind eye and take their share of bribe money, it exists at every level of society |
Right!! And this makes it difficult to teach at colegios and/or to adults. |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| EFLeducator wrote: |
| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
| I don't see any better from the rest of Mexican society... Bribes are a way of life, laws are suggestions and education is seen as a waste of time |
Education is seen as a waste of time by many in Mexico City from what I experienced. I too taught at one of those colegios and the students there could have cared less about education. They were concerneed only with the next party. Don't believe me feel free to go and watch a class sometimes. The same was experienced with adult students as well. While they were more interested than the colegio kids, there was still an attitude of education is a waste of time. Colegios and teaching kids is not the answer if one is looking for a half way decent wage TEFLing in Mexico City.
| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
| From a micro bus driver in the DF giving a few pesos bribe to the corrupt transit cops to the corrupt cops to their supervisors that demand a daily kickback to the high-level officials to the lawyers and judges that turn a blind eye and take their share of bribe money, it exists at every level of society |
Right!! And this makes it difficult to teach at colegios and/or to adults. |
EFLeducator, I don't think there is such a thing as a decent wage in TEFL in Mexico... Gotta look further afield, but it won't be had in such a place as this. |
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EFLeducator
Joined: 16 Dec 2011
Posts: 595
Location: NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
| EFLeducator, I don't think there is such a thing as a decent wage in TEFL in Mexico... Gotta look further afield, but it won't be had in such a place as this. |
Thanks for the great point Prof. Gringo. |
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