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On my way back in three weeks
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My experience is on record. I didn't say that I also got about 100,000 yen in annual research money at that HS. I was homeroom assistant teacher for a year, which meant mornings and afternoon announcements with the head HR teacher had to be attended. When the head teacher was gone, that duty fell to me.

However, my main point is that I was worked like a dog there. I taught 11 completely different lesson plans per week, in about 20 separate classes, too. Lots of lesson planning!

As for working 8 to 8 and half Saturdays being beyond the call of duty, I can easily say that I didn't like it, but the J teachers worked longer. If you don't want to work such hours (that is, if those are presented to you), don't take the job, but at least you know it's possible, so ask about time commitments during interviews.
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ghostrider



Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 147

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in a similar position as you, sans an MA.

You're partially right about work in America. It's pretty standard now for college graduates to spend months looking for work, only to end up working at Best Buy, Apple or some other low paying job. Most of my coworkers with master's degrees have them in unrelated fields to what they're doing, and they're only doing the position they are because there aren't enough jobs in the field they studied. As another person suggested, I think people may have better luck in smaller, less popular cities. I know in New York and San Francisco, there are way too many people with BA's and MA's and not enough jobs to match what they're qualified to do. Forget it if you didn't go to a top school because so many people in those cities have. Also, competition for teaching jobs in the US is pretty intense right now with so many budget cuts.

That said, at least back home you potentially have more freedom in career options, where as in Japan you're limited to English teaching and recruitment. If you actually love either of those fields, it would certainly help your enjoyment of living in Japan longer. I think many English teachers in Japan get tired of it quickly because it wasn't something they were actually interested in, couple with the boredom and lack of responsibility and respect they have as an ALT (at public schools).

I don't think all private schools expect you to work as many hours as Glenski did. I worked for a few actually and had friends there who did as well. Hours were more like 8-5/6PM in most cases. Yes, half Saturday school is fairly common though. I was lucky in never having that schedule myself. If you're not a big on partying on Friday nights, it's probably not that big of a deal if you enjoy what you're doing and where you're living.

Yes, dispatch is very common among private schools now. The good news is most are very hands off, keep their contracts with schools for many years, and don't have a record for consistently decreasing wages and holidays as is the case with public school ALT dispatch companies. Some private school dispatch companies may employ part-time, but with fairly high hourly rates. You'll likely be expected to work more as a direct hire, but you'll also earn more as a dispatch company won't be taking a cut.

If you want to earn a comfortable salary teaching, you're best aiming for international schools or colleges/universities. You should have an upper hand in getting one of those positions with an MA, though it'll still be a challenge since there are fewer and the turnover rate is lower.

As for the first sentence, I've been back in the US for over the year and just find myself missing Japan a lot. My 2 main deterrents at this point are a lack of money (ate through my savings looking for work in the US, now make just enough to survive) and the on-going nuclear radiation problems. I think the Kansai area may be safer, unfortunately there are fewer jobs there. Quite a large difference between the number and quality of jobs offered in Kansai and those in Tokyo. I'm trying my best to forget about Japan and do something else now.
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OneJoelFifty



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 463

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenski wrote:
Joel,
Your employer is the dispatch agency, not the school. Seems very weird for a school to go that route, and all I can figure is that they are cheapskates. So, since you don't work FOR the school, you are probably not eligible for a teaching license like I got. I cannot say for sure. Maybe the labor standard office can explain.

I know ALTs get dispatched, but not FT solo teachers. Strange.


I was under the impression that it's not legal to be alone in the classroom without a teaching license. That was what was always quoted during the two years I worked as an ALT, and why the company insisted on us not taking classes alone if the JTE was absent. Is that not the case?
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Kionon



Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 226
Location: Kyoto, Japan and Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, legally you are not. That doesn't stop it from happening. I taught plenty of solo lessons.

You want crazy? I even had a student teacher placed under me. In a public school. I was the main teacher, and he helped me so he could learn how to become an English teacher.

As long as no one complains, you'll see all sorts of blatant disregard for the law...
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timothypfox



Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 492

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the variety of experiences here should be a big help to Kionen and others reading in on more ideal and less ideal work situations in Japan, and a starkly realistic view of the job situation in the US.

I want to add that I am lucky to get the job I have at the moment. Very lucky. I in fact waited for about 4 months for an answer while they were weeding out other candidates and probably playing a waiting game because they couldn't decide who to hire. Whoever stuck around would get hired in the end? Was that me? Perhaps...

But, most of the stories I hear are more like Glenski's or Ghostriders. I took 5 years to carefully find a suitable position. 5 years!

While I got a job at the DOE in NYC through the Teaching Fellows Program, I was placed in a low income school and all of the students had multiple disabilities. I had 2 prinicipals the violated labor standards - both threatened and harassed teachers over minor and often made up infractions that left the union constantly wrangling over teacher's rights with the principals and the city mayor (Bloomburg - a man who despises unions). Not to mention my workers rights were violated by the constant redefining of what is and is not good teaching crafted by the so-called genius education professors at Columbia, Berkley and NYU (many of whom have barely set food in a classroom). So, all in all my workers rights have been better respected and legally upheld here in Japan ------- so far..............
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Kionon



Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 226
Location: Kyoto, Japan and Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, one of the biggies is prepared to give me a position at the end of May/beginning of June. Salary is pretty sucktastic, and the area is going to be pretty expensive compared to what I'm used to, but I do not reneg on my contracts, and as long as I have some position, I can search around for the next year, possibly get my previous position back, or be able to apply for the jobs I really want for the 2013-2014 school year.

I do have a visa question. Since I have a specialist in humanities visa, they want to change it to an instructor visa. They will try to get me a three year like I currently have. I'm fine with this, but concerned about what I can do on the side if I do end up having more free time than I expected or I need to make some spending money.

Also, if I have gone a portion of my visa without employment, and I know that immigration already knows about it and I have had no issues getting into the country during that period, should I expect the new visa type/new sponsorship to go smoothly (insert normal understandings about immigration here) when I go in to change it over?
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kionon wrote:
I do have a visa question. Since I have a specialist in humanities visa, they want to change it to an instructor visa. They will try to get me a three year like I currently have.
I don't think they have any say in that, but good luck anyway. One year or three years, it's usually up to immigration.

Changing to that other visa is probably not going be a problem, though.

Quote:
They will try to get me a three year like I currently have. I'm fine with this, but concerned about what I can do on the side if I do end up having more free time than I expected or I need to make some spending money.
You cannot work outside the realm of what any visa is for, unless you get special permission from immigration. Easily enough accomplished.
http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/english/tetuduki/zairyuu/shikakugai.html
http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/english/tetuduki/kanri/shyorui/09.html

Quote:
Also, if I have gone a portion of my visa without employment, and I know that immigration already knows about it and I have had no issues getting into the country during that period, should I expect the new visa type/new sponsorship to go smoothly (insert normal understandings about immigration here) when I go in to change it over?
Probably not even related. Out of your control anyway.
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Kionon



Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 226
Location: Kyoto, Japan and Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenski wrote:
I don't think they have any say in that, but good luck anyway. One year or three years, it's usually up to immigration.


Control? Not after the paperwork has been handed to immigration, no, but there IS a spot on the sponsors paperwork for "time requested" just like on the applicant's paperwork. If it doesn't match, it can cause extra conversations and likely an immediate default to one year. I know this because my previous sponsor always checked with me, and knowing I was leaving the position still agreed to put 3yrs, since he knew I was coming back to Japan and I had been a good employee.

Quote:
Changing to that other visa is probably not going be a problem, though.


Yeah, I didn't think it would be hard to change it over to a one year, all things being equal...

Quote:
You cannot work outside the realm of what any visa is for, unless you get special permission from immigration. Easily enough accomplished.
http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/english/tetuduki/zairyuu/shikakugai.html
http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/english/tetuduki/kanri/shyorui/09.html


So if I wanted to pick up juku or eikaiwa or private lessons... I'd need to add specialist to my visa? And that wouldn't seem odd? And does my employer need to agree? Your links seem to suggest the Applicant can do all the paperwork himself/herself.

Quote:
Probably not even related. Out of your control anyway.


Out of my control, definitely, but just curious why you think it would be unrelated. Immigration knows I am not currently working, they also did not care, but it still seems like it is part of my record, and thus would be related if not actually relevant...
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kionon wrote:
there IS a spot on the sponsors paperwork for "time requested" just like on the applicant's paperwork. If it doesn't match, it can cause extra conversations and likely an immediate default to one year. I know this because my previous sponsor always checked with me, and knowing I was leaving the position still agreed to put 3yrs, since he knew I was coming back to Japan and I had been a good employee.
Thanks for that, Kionon. I have not needed to apply for or renew a visa in a long time. I'll see if I can find that document online for future reference.

Quote:
Quote:
You cannot work outside the realm of what any visa is for, unless you get special permission from immigration. Easily enough accomplished.
http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/english/tetuduki/zairyuu/shikakugai.html
http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/english/tetuduki/kanri/shyorui/09.html


So if I wanted to pick up juku or eikaiwa or private lessons... I'd need to add specialist to my visa? And that wouldn't seem odd? And does my employer need to agree? Your links seem to suggest the Applicant can do all the paperwork himself/herself.
You don't "add" specialist (or any other type of work visa) to your current one. You can only have one visa at a time. You simply ask to do work outside of it, using the procedure I linked, and immigration gives the nod or not. I don't know how this shows up in your passport, but I suspect a special stamp will be there.

No, it's not odd. It's an immigration policy. The links I gave you were directly from the immigration guidebook.

Your employer for the supplemental work actually needs to want to hire you first, and then you go through the paperwork motions. Your main employer has no say in that.

Yes, you can file for this yourself, just as you can file for any visa by yourself (as long as the employer gives you their end of the paper trail). On the link I gave you, the documentation needed from that supplemental employer is described as "A document material that proves the intended activity as indicated on the application form 1copy". This document must say what you have checked on the application form. I suspect that every immigration office will treat this slightly differently, and some may want a copy of a contract. ESID.

Quote:
Quote:
Probably not even related. Out of your control anyway.


Out of my control, definitely, but just curious why you think it would be unrelated.
It's unrelated to your main employer in the sense that he has no legal say whether you can take on the work or not, unless of course it interferes with the hours he has given you.
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Cool Teacher



Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 930
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Glenski wrote:
Heads up on teaching for any private JHS or HS. It's a HECKUVA lot of work as a full-timer!

Kionon:
So you mean it's an actual teaching job?


Cool Tewacher:

No sireeee! 8 until 8 on weekdays and then half your saturdays is beyond the call of most duties.

Kionon: You've never met my high school teachers... Or most of the Japanese corporate types I've met. Pretty par the course for both.

Oh, and there's the many teachers who often purchase supplies out of their own pocket.

Glesnki:
As for working 8 to 8 and half Saturdays being beyond the call of duty, I can easily say that I didn't like it, but the J teachers worked longer.



Very Happy

Ha ha! Yes I know that many shcools work their buts off and I don't know if I have met your teachers Kionnon, ha ha but probably not. Very Happy

But I think you misunderstand me. My point was to say that 8-8 is not what makes it a teaching job. Most of the teachers do more than just teach they do all kinds of other stuff and much of the time they are somtiems not teaching. Confused

I think there are REAL teching jobs that dont require so many hours so I think it is not fair to imply that if you are not doing those crazy hours then you are not doing a real teacihing job. Shocked
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Kionon



Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 226
Location: Kyoto, Japan and Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenski wrote:
It's unrelated to your main employer in the sense that he has no legal say whether you can take on the work or not, unless of course it interferes with the hours he has given you.


Not what I was asking. I meant for the main employer, when I switch to the new visa, there should be no issues, despite the time I have been on my current visa without active employment. You say "unrelated." So I am asking if (knowing immigration can be crazy) I should be prepared to encounter questions or static for that. Immigration knows, so I don't see why... but Immigration is not monolithic, and it is better to say my OLD Immigration office knows... What will Tokyo do?
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kionon wrote:
Glenski wrote:
It's unrelated to your main employer in the sense that he has no legal say whether you can take on the work or not, unless of course it interferes with the hours he has given you.


Not what I was asking. I meant for the main employer, when I switch to the new visa, there should be no issues, despite the time I have been on my current visa without active employment.
yes, true. They would have hired you anyway.

Quote:
You say "unrelated." So I am asking if (knowing immigration can be crazy) I should be prepared to encounter questions or static for that. Immigration knows, so I don't see why...
They might care or they might not. Technically, you are not supposed to be here on a working visa for more than 3 months if you are not working, unless you have a very good reason. Technically. IMO, I think you will be ok.
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Kionon



Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 226
Location: Kyoto, Japan and Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I was technically here in the US, finishing my MA. I walk on Saturday, overall GPA just came in a few minutes ago, 3.75. Not what I hoped for (I got one B, so I lost my 3.9), but better than I feared (walked out of finals concerned I had two Bs, which would have dropped me t a 3.6), I kept up my residential obligations, paid my taxes, etc, and my old immigration office knew I was not working because I was finishing the MA in the US, and not only paying taxes, but not using Japanese social services... Sounds like I'm probably good...

Of course, with immigration, you never know...
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sokunen



Joined: 03 Mar 2011
Posts: 22
Location: Alaska

PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

timothypfox wrote:
Alaska always needs people


Not.. really.. I mean, we are not suffering a drought by any means, and while our economy is good here, it's still competitive. We have a lot of you Outsiders coming up here, because our job market is slightly more attractive since we have pretty low unemployment but that doesn't mean we're overflowing with jobs.

We do have an accelerated teaching certification program, but prospective teachers have to spend a year out in rural Alaska, which can be very unforgiving and unwelcoming to Outsiders, depending on the placement.
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Kionon



Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 226
Location: Kyoto, Japan and Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sokunen wrote:
timothypfox wrote:
Alaska always needs people


Not.. really.. I mean, we are not suffering a drought by any means, and while our economy is good here, it's still competitive. We have a lot of you Outsiders coming up here, because our job market is slightly more attractive since we have pretty low unemployment but that doesn't mean we're overflowing with jobs.

We do have an accelerated teaching certification program, but prospective teachers have to spend a year out in rural Alaska, which can be very unforgiving and unwelcoming to Outsiders, depending on the placement.


No offense, but I wouldn't have any interest. My happy temperature is 85F, I am after all, from Texas. Calling Alaska harsh would be... Understatement in the extreme.
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