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Grendal
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 861
Location: Lurking in the depths of the Faisaliah Tower underground parking.
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 Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| fledex wrote: |
| Bill Frawley wrote: |
| Xxxxxxx |
Edex isn't and better. |
Is this a robot poster?
I thought I saw this same copy/paste on another related thread.
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Betrayer of Hope
Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Posts: 72
Location: in a dark place
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| teacup05 wrote: |
Hello Grendel,
over here at the women's campus, teachers are not complaining about 1 lousy riyal missing from their pay. They are complaining about getting stuck in Bahrain for a couple weeks because of ICEAT mishandling their visas and then not getting paid for the work they missed, even when it's not their fault. They are complaining about being abandoned after getting mugged while in a different city and their passport stolen, meaning they can't get back to Riyadh. They are complaining about having to hand in their passports to get a visa extension, though they were promised iqamas, and then not getting their passports for 5 months or more. We are still being promised iqamas -- but all the iqamas have been assigned to men only. We are complaining about how, because we don't have iqamas, we can't have bank accounts. After about 4 months ICEAT finally figured our how to help us transfer money so we could pay our overseas bills -- before that we had to rely on colleagues and taxi drivers who used their iqamas to transfer our money for us. We are complaining about how, if the bus doesn't show up, it's somehow our fault and we get yelled at for it. We're complaining about having been recruited with the promise we'd have a choice of accommodation, then being housed an hour from campus in a new city block with no stores on our side of a very busy and dangerous street, no restaurants where we can eat, and no place to walk. We're complaining about the ridiculous expectation that if we have flu, we still have to show up to work. Apparently it should be no problem if someone vomits on the bus.
Last (for now) and not least, but very problematic, is the dismissive attitude that ICEAT men take towards the teachers. Problem solving does not come out of disregard, but from respecting each other's perspective and seriously looking for positive alternatives. |
I think the owner of ICEAT has realized that his ship is sinking at KSU. They are cutting corners and trying to come up with any excuse to withhold teachers' salaries.
Just a week ago, teachers who were going on their annual summer holidays were asked to sign their new contracts otherwise the company would not give them an exit/re-entry visa. Please note that the new contracts included a decrease in housing allowance for single teachers and a lower medical coverage for teachers with family. This was reported to the KSU management who are still trying to resolve this issue. |
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fledex
Joined: 05 Jun 2011
Posts: 342
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:52 am Post subject: |
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| So, did anyone from ICEAT or Edex have classes during the summer, or were they just going into empty classrooms to collect their pay? |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| Betrayer of Hope wrote: |
| Just a week ago, teachers who were going on their annual summer holidays were asked to sign their new contracts otherwise the company would not give them an exit/re-entry visa. |
If this is the case, it would only affect those few teachers who (finally) got iqamas and plan to return. However, those on business visit visas don't require an exit visa and can just leave but are probably hanging around waiting to get paid. (I'm sure ICEAT is deliberately withholding their pay to keep them "working" a bit longer and thus, continuing to earn money for the company.)
| fledex wrote: |
| So, did anyone from ICEAT or Edex have classes during the summer, or were they just going into empty classrooms to collect their pay? |
Friends of mine working for these outfits at KSU and PNU are expected to go in and sit in empty rooms. They use that time constructively, however, by updating their CVs/resumes and using the Internet to job search or work on personal projects. Some sign in and leave for a spell before returning to sign out. |
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bokonon
Joined: 09 Sep 2010
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:34 am Post subject: Can I prevent some of these? |
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I've accepted a job offer with ICEAT/KSU. I still plan on going , even after reading this discouraging list. Tell me if any of the following sound naive in their optimism:
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| 1) False promises of Iqamas (teachers waited for 9 months! to get their Iqamas. Most gave up and kept their Work Visit Visas) |
I'm going to call someone at the embassy in DC to become informed about how an Iqama is obtained. If there are certain forms to fill out, maybe I can take care of most of the leg work myself and then just get the appropriate signatures (?)
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| 2) No flight reimbursements (those teachers who were told to leave the night before their visa was due to expire!) |
I can't afford my own flight, so if they don't pay for it, I won't be going anyway!
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| 3) Visa and Iqama fees paid by the TEACHERS and not the company |
See above. If my visa isn't paid for by the company, I'll just find a job elsewhere.
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| 4) Promises broken by the former Project Manager ( who is now the Recruitment Manager and whose name begins with an "A" and is synonymous with cheating and lying) |
Thanks, I'll know not to expect anything from him.
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| 5) Paid-holiday authorized and given by KSU to companies, yet some ICEAT teachers weren't even paid at all! |
Why only some? Which ones weren't paid? Was there some common reason behind the ones who weren't paid?
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| 6) Family Housing allowances only given if your spouse is with you in Saudi Arabia, otherwise you get single status allowance. |
Why would the company pay you extra to house people who aren't even there? I'm confused by this one. Is it because they needed the extra money to send home because they were supporting their family from afar?
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| 7) A poor and incompetent team working at their office, any process takes weeks to complete. |
I have infinite patience. I can already see this, though, with how long it takes to receive e-mail replies.
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| 8. An increasing array of complaints this year from teachers given to KSU's HR Team regarding their pay being docked, ill-treatment by the company, no proper channel of communication etc. |
What kind of ill-treatment? Can you be specific here so I know exactly what I'm getting myself into?
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| 9) Salaries being docked by the MINUTE if teachers are late signing-in and in some cases, whole days being deducted. |
I'll take punctuality very seriously, then. |
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BlueRainbow
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
Posts: 13
Location: Jeddah, KSA:)
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:20 am Post subject: Bokonon |
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A million thanks for making me laugh until I cried when I read your post!!!!!!!!!
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wantok
Joined: 05 Jul 2012
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:10 am Post subject: |
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..........
Last edited by wantok on Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:27 am; edited 4 times in total |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:32 am Post subject: Re: Can I prevent some of these? |
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| bokonon wrote: |
| I've accepted a job offer with ICEAT/KSU. I still plan on going , even after reading this discouraging list. Tell me if any of the following sound naive in their optimism. |
Yes, you're being naive and rather reckless. Working for ICEAT or any of the other dodgy contracting outfits in the Kingdom is a roll of the dice, and the house nearly always wins because the game is rigged even before you start playing. But since you say you still plan on going, I've refrained from commenting on your responses but strongly suggest you spend more time reading reviews about these recruiting/contracting companies in order to get a reality check on what crapshoot you're walking into. And it's apparent you need to read up on living in restrictive Saudi Arabia as well.
Good luck. |
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hashim99uk
Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 47
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:19 am Post subject: Re: Can I prevent some of these? |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| bokonon wrote: |
| I've accepted a job offer with ICEAT/KSU. I still plan on going , even after reading this discouraging list. Tell me if any of the following sound naive in their optimism. |
Yes, you're being naive and rather reckless. Working for ICEAT or any of the other dodgy contracting outfits in the Kingdom is a roll of the dice, and the house nearly always wins because the game is rigged even before you start playing. But since you say you still plan on going, I've refrained from commenting on your responses but strongly suggest you spend more time reading reviews about these recruiting/contracting companies in order to get a reality check on what crapshoot you're walking into. And it's apparent you need to read up on living in restrictive Saudi Arabia as well.
Good luck. |
Why you discourage people from going and see themselves. The most important thing is to save money, even you work in unacceptable conditions. I taught in the UK with good conditions but saved nothing! friends of mine taught in Saudi Arabia for the same length of time and saved more than 60000 pounds!! 3 years in Saudi Arabia. But 3 years in the UK means nothing!! No place on this planet is perfect. The day is 24 hours and passes rapidly, everything will go. In the end the money earned in the money saved. The day is the day, whether in the West or the East. We can invest out time in any place. We can do online Masters or PhD during teaching. Finally we leave Saudi Arabia with good money and higher qualifications. Saudi Arabia is perfect in terms of saving money and free time. Only serious people can get the fruit. China, Thailand, Vietnam, ... do not pay more than $ 1000 a month with poor conditions. Korea is the best in saving money but not more than Saudi Arabia, nearly $2000 a month and the employers are nasty.
Please do not discourage people. Saudi Arabia is the best place now in this global crisis. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: Can I prevent some of these? |
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| hashim99uk wrote: |
Why you discourage people from going and see themselves. The most important thing is to save money, even you work in unacceptable conditions. I taught in the UK with good conditions but saved nothing! friends of mine taught in Saudi Arabia for the same length of time and saved more than 60000 pounds!! 3 years in Saudi Arabia. But 3 years in the UK means nothing!! No place on this planet is perfect. The day is 24 hours and passes rapidly, everything will go. In the end the money earned in the money saved. The day is the day, whether in the West or the East. We can invest out time in any place. We can do online Masters or PhD during teaching. Finally we leave Saudi Arabia with good money and higher qualifications. Saudi Arabia is perfect in terms of saving money and free time. Only serious people can get the fruit. China, Thailand, Vietnam, ... do not pay more than $ 1000 a month with poor conditions. Korea is the best in saving money but not more than Saudi Arabia, nearly $2000 a month and the employers are nasty.
Please do not discourage people. Saudi Arabia is the best place now in this global crisis. |
I think we all can agree that KSA is quite desirable in terms of earning potential---no argument there. In fact, as an MA holder, I have a very good salary/benefits. Plus, I have time to continue my other interests or studies on the side. But then, I'm a direct hire with an iqama, which allows for more stability than those teachers on business visit visas with ICEAT, EdEx, Al Shabaka, and the like.
In response to your other comments... You're certainly entitled to your opinion and have all the right to contradict me and others on this forum by telling job seekers that there are boatloads of money to be made in the Kingdom for those willing to sell their soul to the devil and put up with crappy treatment from these contractors. However, what you refer to as discouraging is what I and other forum contributors consider providing information and advice about the real picture of working with these outfits (e.g., late or reduced payments, revised contract terms and conditions that favor the company, empty promises, lack of communication and/or assistance, incorrect info, tiresome visa runs, etc.). In other words, these job seekers should choose responsibly and not let an image of money falling from the sky cloud their good judgment and possibly fill them with regret down the road. Ultimately, those asking for advice will make their own decisions---after all, they're adults and can take the suggestions and info for what it is or completely ignore it. As such, some choose to teach elsewhere in the world, while others take their chances with these sketchy contracting companies with the hope the situation will at least be tolerable. In the end, we're accountable for our own actions and choices.
By the way, I have several teacher friends who gave these contractors a try despite knowing the situation could be dodgy. Yet, it was all about the money. When working for these outfits became unbearable and exhausting, these teachers ended up using the money they earned to purchase pricey airline tickets to return to their home countries. They now have dwindling funds and no work and are frantically scrambling to find teaching jobs... in Asia. So just "going and seeing for themselves" turned out to be a costly decision for them. |
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fledex
Joined: 05 Jun 2011
Posts: 342
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: Can I prevent some of these? |
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[/quote]
Saudi Arabia is the best place now in this global crisis.[/quote]
You have to be joking. I can think of many other better countries in this global crisis. Some pay double what you get in Saudi and have better employers than Edex or ICEAT. Iraq and Afghanistan come immediately to mind. However, now there are other countries with more of an economic future than these dangerous countries. They may require more time at work than in Saudi, but you can have a somewhat normal life in other places. In other places, the contractors and recruiters have also not steered me wrong, as they do in Saudi. |
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hashim99uk
Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 47
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: Can I prevent some of these? |
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Saudi Arabia is the best place now in this global crisis.[/quote]
You have to be joking. I can think of many other better countries in this global crisis. Some pay double what you get in Saudi and have better employers than Edex or ICEAT. Iraq and Afghanistan come immediately to mind. However, now there are other countries with more of an economic future than these dangerous countries. They may require more time at work than in Saudi, but you can have a somewhat normal life in other places. In other places, the contractors and recruiters have also not steered me wrong, as they do in Saudi.[/quote]
Iraq and Afghanistan are the most dangerous countries in the world. They need decades to reach the stability of Saudi Arabia. I can confidently recommend Libya as the next destination. I got job offers from Tripoli and Benghazi, better than Saudi Arabia but the situation still volatile and needs few months to get better as the liberals won the majority in the national elections. Also Libyan people are very nice and hospitable, I spent 2 years there and hope to go back again. But now, Saudi Arabia in better than Libya in terms of political and economic stability. |
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fledex
Joined: 05 Jun 2011
Posts: 342
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:06 am Post subject: |
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| Saudi is stable for now, compared to these other places. A better question, though, is whether employers like Edex and ICEAT will actually pay you what they promise, whether they will place you where you are contracted to serve your time, whether their accommodation is suitable, whether they get you to and from work in one piece, and so on? I found that even though other countries are unstable, the time there was more enjoyable, and the employers there took care of me better than Edex or ICEAT take care of their employees. They lived up to their contracts. |
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AnneCO
Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 53
Location: US
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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Hashim are you Saudi yourself? If so, you must be accustomed to working conditions that are shockingly unbelievable to some westerners.
I do find the discouraging posts about jobs in Saudi well . . .er . . . discouraging; however, SA as all countries has a unique culture surrounding work conditions. The more an ex-patriot knows about a culture the better. I argue that it is better for the employers as well as they will get workers with reasonable expectations of the job.
I've yet to work in the Middle East but from what I have read many employers have VERY different ways of treating employees. Practices that are simple unacceptable to western teachers are common in SA. Although the pay may be some of the best in the world, many teachers go into their profession for other reasons than money. People who really want to make a lot of money go into real estate development or some other kind of business. |
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ositolector
Joined: 04 Nov 2009
Posts: 8
Location: SoCal Forever
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:57 pm Post subject: ICEAT is garbage. Bokonon, you have been warned. |
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| BlueRainbow wrote: |
A million thanks for making me laugh until I cried when I read your post!!!!!!!!!
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Me too.
This guy sounds like me 2 years ago. I have survived 2 years of KSA and am pleased to be out of it. The first was with ICEAT (aka ICEEL) and the second with a more staid employer which was just a bit better. I've held my tongue on this miserable company for too long -- and have been relieved when I've read of others who've pulled their card -- for the main reason that it's depressing to relive my awful experiences and also because one needs to always Keep Moving Forward. But then I read of someone as naive as this bokonon guy who is just going to face plant over there and thus feel like I've been tapped to say something.
ICEAT formerly ICEEL is a maggoty shell of a company run by a couple of amateur business men who have no idea how to manage contractors and who only want to take their cut of your hours without doing their job as sponsors. In all your dealings with them you will never feel secure that their answers are the truth. Your misgivings in dealing with them will not be misplaced.
Sometimes when you read these forums you get to wonder how much of the problem is the poster himself -- you think, as I did, hey I'll just go over there, keep my head down, and save my money. I've lived in the 3rd world, I've been camping, I've lived with 8 brothers, etc etc, I can handle this. No you can't because doing the simplest things will be a stressful hassle either because of ICEAT or KSA.(I was going to lump in the university but actually for many - those who know how to teach and manage Saudi students - the work portion of the day is the best part of the day- not perfect but manageable.)
Like what? Well, your pay. A guy will show up with a bagful of cash on an given day --- don't miss hearing about it via the txt sent to random people: He'll count it out and you'll sign for it. If it's wrong or short, you'll be leaving messages for weeks to sort it out. You may have to go to their offices since you can't get an answer, purposefully rented in an area far from the u and impossible to find without a guide or detailed map. Then you will have to divine who really has the authority -- and it isn't who you think OR the PM ( Arab guy with a girls first name) -- to fix it. OK now you got your money but you can't have an account cuz you're on a visit visa so you'll have to cajole or bribe someone to help you wire it out.
WHile you're there you may have brought along some medical receipts for a respiratory infection you had ---- and which everyone gets (some chronically)-- and fight to get reimbursed. There is NO medical. THey can't insure you because you aren't legally working and are not a resident. So they promise to reimburse but do so late or never. There was one guy, very well liked by admin and staff who got a serious eye infection which required surgery. They were going to just fire him and send him back rather than own up to the responsibility.! Or they said he could sign a release, go blind in the eye, and keep working. In the end, they paid -- upon pressure from some dean types at the U who had his back. The famous Wasta. These are the type of garbage people you will be working with at ICEAT.
If you have any problems at the U, ICEAT will not get involved in any way. Unlike Bell or EdEx - not to praise them btw - ICEAT has no on-campus presence and they do not participate in the on-campus management of contractors. Problems what problems? It is not talked about enough on these boards but it is very very common to be disciplined -- and even fired --in Saudi U's for simple infractions or accusations. One guy I personally knew of was so fired, and ICEAT would not pay for his flight out, the contract be damned. When he refused to go without his pay and his ticket , they tried to scare him saying that they could not be responsible for his safety any longer and had blackhearts txt and call him with threats. Then they finally got him a ticket ---- to London -- (he was from the USA) saying well, we promised you a ticket out of the country....
And on and on. I could type all day and not run out. It's always like that for everything with these people. You will not get your vacation pay -- and you will agonize if, how, when you will get your last check. And they may say, you'll get it when your return or..... do you get the picture??
ICEAT is run by garbage people and that's just how they will treat you.
I hope this helps someone somewhere. |
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