Job Discussion Forums

[al-Californian]

Thanks, John. For a minute there I thought I was turning in to a xenophobe.

They can keep their anchors, I'm setting sail to to the tax free oasis!

[johnslat]

Dear al-Californian,

Better hang onto that xenophobia - more than a few have found it indispensable upon arrival in Saudi .

Regards,
John

[veiledsentiments]

Actually a significant number of these anchor babies - especially the Arabs - don't return except to spend tourist dollars... and some come back the same way that their parents did... getting a degree paid for by their Gulf government. They have no intention of staying and cost us nothing.

A significant number of them are the middle and upper classes of poor countries who fly over to the US just to have their baby. They fly back as soon as they have the official birth certificate. Then if things fall apart in their home country, they have given their child the option of perhaps a better life. Again, they cost us nothing.

I've worked with teachers in the Gulf who did this.

VS

[HystericalHoosier]

While it is generally accepted that babies born of illegal parents are citizens, the question has never come before the SCOTUS. Each state sets its own rules for what they charge different kind of students and citizens can chose to support or not support those policies at the ballot box.

The information in the Seattle article is not supported by empirical data. Like the argument against Voter ID laws, a number of people could be affected doesn't mean they are. It begs the question that the only way an illegal is paying SS taxes is if they stole someone's SS number.

Finally everyone working here should be paying taxes or they are breaking the law. (I am working for a US company so I do pay SS taxes). They can take advantage of certain exemptions and deductions like everyone else. Even if you are exempt from FED taxes you may be liable for state tax on your pay. I will agree our tax code needs major overhaul to get rid of many of the special interest deductions. We can solve the debt by just asking people at the top to pay more taxes.

[johnslat]

Dear Hysterical Hoosier,

"While it is generally accepted that babies born of illegal parents are citizens, the question has never come before the SCOTUS."

Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution
Since the adoption of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution on July 9, 1868, citizenship of persons born in the United States has been controlled by its Citizenship Clause, which states:

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside"

"The information in the Seattle article is not supported by empirical data. "

Citations, please.


"It begs the question that the only way an illegal is paying SS taxes is if they stole someone's SS number."

That's a question?


"Finally everyone working here should be paying taxes or they are breaking the law."

Wrong - while everyone needs to FILE every year, those not working for a US company and not making over a certain amount do NOT have to pay taxes as long as they meet the requirements:

"If you are a U.S. citizen or a resident alien of the United States and you live abroad, you are taxed on your worldwide income. However, you may qualify to exclude from income up to an amount of your foreign earnings that is now adjusted for inflation ($91,400 for 2009, $91,500 for 2010, $92,900 for 2011, $95,100 for 2012). In addition, you can exclude or deduct certain foreign housing amounts."

"Even if you need to file, most (but not all) states allow the same foreign earned income exclusion as the US government. State filing and residency rules for a number of states can be found by clicking here.

"State Residency Issues
Each state has its own rules about whom it considers a resident and who is required to file a state tax return. From this page you can download the rules for a number of states which OTS has dealt with in the past few years. These documents were updated on December 1, 2010, but states do change their rules from time to time. We offer it as a place to start if you are trying to determine your status with respect to one of the states listed here.

http://www.overseastaxservices.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=60&Itemid=60

Regards,
John

[veiledsentiments]

[2buckets]

In South Carolina, the state gov't offered to take people to get the photo ID for free. Only 23 people applied.

There are few things you can do anymore without photo ID, cash a check, get on an airplane, enter some Federal and State offices, sometimes use your credit card, buy fertilizer, (a real issue in the farm belt), to name a few.

[HystericalHoosier]

Dear John (never thought I be saying that)

Let me repeat, SCOTUS has never addressed the issue of whether children born of parents in the country illegally are citizens. I don't know how that statement can be any clearer.

I am afraid your friend Jeannie is just pitching left-wing rhetoric. Fact, we have no idea how many illegals are paying taxes if any. That it might be "believed" that many are illegal does not in fact mean that any taxes are from illegal immigrants. (just as your troll friend seems to fail to understand that the allegation that people who are legally entitled to vote are going to be kept from the ballot box means that it is true. The Court found in the IN voter ID case that there was not one case of any person being denied their constitutional right to vote). Nor does your scenario mean that any are actually paying the tax as low income workers claim the Earned income tax credit which returns these taxes to them. So unless our illegal friend is in the Facebook board room they are not paying any SS tax.

By beg the question I mean that having taxes withdrawn from a paycheck doesn't change the fact that these people are any less engaged in illegal activity. While a drug dealer may pay taxes on his profit does not mean they are not a drug dealer (not that there is anything wrong with that). I want to strongly stress that being against illegal immigration does not make one anti-immigrant. Some of my own ancestors were immigrants. The individuals who are hurt most by illegal immigrants are usually legal immigrants (unless they are highly educated) along with other Americans with only a high school education or less.

Finally the fact the you can claim an exemption (like anyone else who claims an exemption) does not mean that we don't pay taxes. You have to file the appropriate forms and meet certain requirements to qualify for the exemption. Please don't lead people to believe that they don't have to pay taxes on any income that is made outside the country (as your quote indicates, you "may" qualify). I doubt (can't prove) that most teachers qualify for the exemption. Moreover this doesn't mean we don't pay taxes on any income that is reported on the numerous other schedules that we file with our 1040. As you concede you may still have to pay state income taxes on your foreign income.

[johnslat]

Dear Hysterical Hoosier,

"Let me repeat, SCOTUS has never addressed the issue of whether children born of parents in the country illegally are citizens. I don't know how that statement can be any clearer."

And SCOTUS has never addressed the issue of whether chocolate is better than vanilla, either. You DID read the 14th Amendment, right?

ANd you're pitching right-wing rhetoric - but all the research is on my side:

"Updated April 29, 2011
The belief that illegal immigrants, sometimes referred to as unauthorized immigrants, in the United States pay little or no taxes is far from correct, according to the Immigration Policy Center, which estimates that households headed by illegal immigrants paid a combined $11.2 billion in state and local taxes during 2010.

Based on estimates compiled by the Institute for Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP), the Immigration Policy Center reported that the $11.2 billion in taxes paid by illegal immigrants in 2010 included $8.4 billion in sales taxes, $1.6 billion in property taxes and $1.2 billion in state personal income taxes.

In coming up with its $11.2 billion estimate for annual taxes paid by illegal immigrants, the Institute for Taxation and Economic Policy say it relied on: 1) an estimate of each state's unauthorized population; 2) the average family income for unauthorized immigrants; and 3) state-specific tax payments.

Estimates of the illegal or unauthorized population of each state came from the Pew Hispanic Center and Census 2010. According to the Pew Center, an estimated 11.2 million illegal immigrants lived in the U.S. during 2010. The average annual income for households headed by an illegal alien was estimated at $36,000, of which about 10% is sent to support family members in countries of origin.

"In spite of the fact that they lack legal status, these immigrants -- and their family members -- are adding value to the U.S. economy; not only as taxpayers, but as workers, consumers, and entrepreneurs as well," states the Immigration Policy Center in a press release.

"Of course, it is difficult to know precisely how much these families pay in taxes, because the spending and income behavior of these families is not as well documented as is the case for U.S. citizens. But these estimates represent a sensible best approximation of the taxes these families likely pay."

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/incometaxandtheirs/a/Illegal-Immigrants-Pay-Taxes-Too.htm

Regarding "voter suppression" here are some facts

11 percent of American citizens don�t possess a government-issued photo ID (of over 21 million citizens)
3 of the photo ID bills to have passed expressly do not allow students to use photo IDs issued by state schools to vote. Wisconsin�s bill excludes most student IDs as well.
3 million Americans tried to vote in 2008 but couldn�t, due to voter registration problems.
25 percent of African-Americans do not possess a current and valid form of government photo ID, compared to 11 percent of all races.

http://campusprogress.org/articles/fast_facts_on_voter_suppression/

"Ex-Chair: GOP Seeks Voter Suppression

Jim Greer, the former chairman of the Florida Republican Party, testified in a lawsuit filed against his former party that voter ID and Gov. Rick Scott's (R) voter roll purge are attempts to suppress the black vote. Describing a 2009 meeting he attended with the party's general counsel, two consultants and ex-Gov. Charlie Crist's chief of staff, Greer said, "I was upset because the political consultants and staff were talking about voter suppression and keeping blacks from voting."

http://regator.com/p/256933691/ex-chair_gop_seeks_voter_suppression/

And this:

"The riskiness of the Republican strategy in enacting restrictive election laws suggests that the party has reached an internal consensus that it must, in fact, tilt the playing field in order to win. Recently passed legislation making it more difficult either to cast ballots or to register voters was limited almost entirely to states with Republican legislatures and governors � for example, Florida, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. It was made possible by Republican victories in 2010 that followed the elections of 2006 and 2008 when the Democratic coalition appeared to be on the verge of gaining majority status.

Charlie Crist, former Republican governor of Florida and now an independent, recently criticized voting laws enacted by Republican leaders in his own state. These �machinations make a mockery of the democracy we put on display every Election Day. The right to vote is the key to that democracy, giving value to the freedom of speech and making the freedom of religion and the right to assemble possible,� Crist wrote in the Washington Post.

Cynical efforts at voter suppression are driven by an un-American desire to exclude as many people and silence as many voices as possible. Our country has never solved anything with less democracy, and we�re far better off when more citizens can access the polls � no matter which party mobilizes the most voters to them.
On March 14, Pennsylvania Governor Tom Corbett signed into law legislation requiring all voters to have a photo ID. Under this legislation, voters going to the polls without a photo ID, including indigent voters unable to pay necessary fees to get an ID, will be allowed to cast �provisional� ballots. If you are one of these voters, you will then �have six days to provide your photo ID and/or an affirmation to your county elections office to have your ballot count,� according to the Pennsylvania Department of State.

�I am signing this bill because it protects a sacred principle, one shared by every citizen of this nation. That principle is: one person, one vote,�� Corbett declared. �It sets a simple and clear standard to protect the integrity of our elections.�

Republican State Representative Daryl Metcalfe, the bill�s sponsor, said on the state House floor: �I believe every single individual has a right to have their vote counted and if any individual vote is being canceled out by a fraudulently cast vote, that is one too many.�

A legal challenge to the law, currently before the Commonwealth Court of Pennsylvania, has, however, raised questions about the legitimacy of justifications for voter fraud legislation. On July 12, attorneys defending the law on behalf of the state and the Corbett administration stipulated the following:

The Parties are not aware of in-person voter fraud in Pennsylvania and do not have direct personal knowledge of in-person voter fraud elsewhere. Respondents will not offer any evidence in this action that in-person voter fraud has in fact occurred in Pennsylvania or elsewhere.
And that:

Respondents will not offer any evidence that in-person voter fraud is likely to occur in November 2012 in the absence of the Photo ID law.
In other words, the state cannot and will not produce any evidence of the kind of voter fraud the legislation has supposedly been crafted to prevent."

Kind of violates the old "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" rule, doesn't it?

Finally on taxes - I worked for 19 years in Saudi, filed every year, and paid no taxes. The fact that you're working for a US company and do pay taxes would seem to mean that you don't know jack about the tax laws.


Regards,
John