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End of times: Part Deux
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GeminiTiger

Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 999
Location: China, 2005--Present

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:47 am Post subject:

samhouston wrote:

Super grateful for the information on this thread. I was just going to start looking for specifics, and there they are.

And just to confirm, the employer keeps the FEC, yes? We don't need it when changing jobs?

Quote:

Every Chinese employer who employs foreigners will know about the release letter.

Not so much...

As per the instructions on the FEC the FE is to leave the FEC with the employer at the end of the contract.

Any employer who can offer z-visas DOES know about release letters because they need them to EMPLOY YOU. If they play stupid at the end of the contract and you buy it, that's your own fault.

TeacherInChina

Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Posts: 206

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:01 pm Post subject:

double post Last edited by TeacherInChina on Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

TeacherInChina

Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Posts: 206

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:01 pm Post subject:

Quote:

http://bizpanda.org/download-chinese-letter-of-release-reference/

The FEC technically is ID for the FT during employment you have a right to see it any time. It also says in the back you can use it as ID, but must return it at the end of contract (the implication is that it's yours while the contract is valid).

Now this is interesting. I actually stumbled upon this letter this afternoon. I sent it to my manager and she laughed, wondering how i knew about this. She then told me that this one is "not for the foreigner", but for the Chinese. Sounds dodgy .... Thanks for posting it. I thought that maybe it was some random letter that someone made a mistake with in terms of its purpose.

Also, is is correct that it is standard procedure for the employer to cancel the FEC, but ignore, the resident permit?[/quote]

TeacherInChina

Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Posts: 206

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:07 pm Post subject:

kungfuman wrote:

TeacherInChina wrote:

Okay, so they said that they will provide me with a "recommendation letter". Is this the same thing ?

They are separate but both are important.

They Chinese OFTEN mix up the names they refer to these documents by. I just suffered MASS CONFUSION at my new school when I was asked to bring the reference letter in again as they lost it.

What I called the RELEASE LETTER THEY called reference letter.

Make sure you are both on the same wavelength OTHERWISE when it comes down to the wire you may be stuck.

Release letter: The OFFICIAL document that says you completed the contract, plus has some personal data about you like salary and age and nationality. Also has a box where they can put in a comment. This is on a standardized official government form and is signed and chopped by the last employer. They usually require the real thing, not a copy. If you are smart you will make a few color copies just in case and scan it and save it.

Reference letter: A letter from the employer on their letterhead saying you are the greatest thing since sliced bread and they are sorry to see you go. (if they like you.) If they don't like you it simply says you worked here from this date to that date and you fulfilled your duties.

Scan and make color copies of these.

Excellent, thanks for this! It helps. But now my manager is playing dumb over the release letter. Apparently, the one posted in this thread is not the one that is given to foreigners. What does she have to gain by this ? Or rather, what does she have to lose / or is hiding by not providing the official form ?

samhouston

Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 418
Location: LA

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:28 pm Post subject:

GeminiTiger wrote:

Any employer who can offer z-visas DOES know about release letters because they need them to EMPLOY YOU. If they play stupid at the end of the contract and you buy it, that's your own fault.

Nope. I'm the first foreigner they've ever gone through the trouble of hiring legally. They were completely clueless about all of it. I had to tell them (and the visa guy they used, who basically was paid to do the paperwork the company could have done themselves) what needed to be done, which forms were required, what a Z visa is, what an RP is, etc. They're not playing stupid.

kungfuman

Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 1749
Location: In My Own Private Idaho

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:44 pm Post subject:

samhouston wrote:

And just to confirm, the employer keeps the FEC, yes? We don't need it when changing jobs?

the rule is - IF you can keep it, then you should. If not they are supposed to cancel it and keep it or return it.

I have 2 of them from former jobs that never asked for them to be returned.

wangdaning

Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:05 pm Post subject:

TeacherInChina wrote:

kungfuman wrote:

TeacherInChina wrote:

Okay, so they said that they will provide me with a "recommendation letter". Is this the same thing ?

Well, it is a document needed by new employers to submit to the government. Technically, you do not need it, the new employer can get it from the old employer. Maybe ask the lady if after 5 years she, personally, will make sure the document is available. Otherwise, you can keep a copy and if it is needed you can render it. Seems she has little to gain other than intelligence.

FECs are to be returned to the office of issuance when they are completed. This does not mean back to the school, it usually means back to the provincial foreign expert office. Your RP should last until the expiration date, unless you leave outside of the contract.

TeacherInChina

Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Posts: 206

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:22 am Post subject:

Quote:

Technically, you do not need it, the new employer can get it from the old employer. Maybe ask the lady if after 5 years she, personally, will make sure the document is available.

FECs are to be returned to the office of issuance when they are completed. This does not mean back to the school, it usually means back to the provincial foreign expert office. Your RP should last until the expiration date, unless you leave outside of the contract.

I would be surprised if the company i work for will be around in the next year, so i would like to have all my ducks in a row. I showed the form to a Chinese friend of mine and she said that it was something given to the foreigner at the end of a contract, as it was stated earlier in the thread. If i take a stand with my manager, she just breaks off all contact. What a headache....

Ahh, i see, so i'm still good on the resident permit. Thanks !

samhouston

Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 418
Location: LA

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:45 pm Post subject:

Quote:

She then told me that this one is "not for the foreigner", but for the Chinese.

Quote:

Apparently, the one posted in this thread is not the one that is given to foreigners.

I printed it out and asked a couple Chinese friends what it says. They said it IS for foreigners. The first two characters in the heading at the top are 外国 (wai guo).

Adeem

Joined: 02 Jun 2007
Posts: 163
Location: Where da teachin' is

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:25 am Post subject:

That is precisely the right form to fill in. I know this as I had one completed and chopped when I moved schools previously, then used as part of my visa application. The heading at the top says that it is recommendation letter (推荐信 - tui jian xin) to be filled in by foreign language professionals and general foreign professionals. Find a round about way to broach the subject with your FAO, like saying that you talked to another school, and they said that they would like this letter filled in and chopped if at all possible. Anything to avoid making her think she is wrong!!!!

TeacherInChina

Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Posts: 206

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:35 am Post subject:

samhouston wrote:

Quote:

She then told me that this one is "not for the foreigner", but for the Chinese.

Quote:

Apparently, the one posted in this thread is not the one that is given to foreigners.

I printed it out and asked a couple Chinese friends what it says. They said it IS for foreigners. The first two characters in the heading at the top are 外国 (wai guo).

Yeah, a good friend of mine confirmed this as well. However, see below....

TeacherInChina

Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Posts: 206

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:48 am Post subject:

Adeem wrote:

That is precisely the right form to fill in. I know this as I had one completed and chopped when I moved schools previously, then used as part of my visa application.

The heading at the top says that it is recommendation letter (推荐信 - tui jian xin) to be filled in by foreign language professionals and general foreign professionals.

Find a round about way to broach the subject with your FAO, like saying that you talked to another school, and they said that they would like this letter filled in and chopped if at all possible.

Anything to avoid making her think she is wrong!!!!

I did exactly this, but even stronger as she was simply pissing and calling it rain......" no no, i deal with foreigners all the time, this is not the form...blah blah .."

It turns out that finally she broke down and admitted that i was on a false visa all along and that she could not fill out the form because of this. She even had the audacity to question whether i could be trusted when i asked her to print out a recommendation form, with contained my job description, in the letter.

There are two FEC's: one is economic and the other is educational. I was on an economic visa, which is toatlly unrelated to what i was doing, so i was, in effect, teaching illegally.

She printed out a piece of paper stating that my FEC was canceled and included the red chop, but i assume that this is essentially a meaningless piece of paper.

I had no idea that i was not even on the right FEC. They lied until the very end. I hope this will not come back to haunt me.....that is , my future employer/PSB officer asking for a release letter.

Last edited by TeacherInChina on Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:29 am; edited 2 times in total

GeminiTiger

Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 999
Location: China, 2005--Present

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:56 am Post subject:

TeacherInChina wrote:

...

Did you sign a government printed contract? I would seriously and I mean seriously seek 3rd party intervention and take as much money as you can at least enough to fly home with extra expenses paid.

Essentially I would be like, well boss, I need 15,000 or I'm going down to the local foreign affairs office and having a chat with them about how you screwed me with illegal employment.

They owe you some money. You will have trouble in the future, You will likely have to fly home and get a new visa.

TeacherInChina

Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Posts: 206

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:23 am Post subject:

GeminiTiger wrote:

TeacherInChina wrote:

...

No, i just signed a contract of their own development.

Surprisingly, they have paid me all the money that they owe.

I will be switching to a student visa in a month or so, but my concern is for the future, if i ever decide to return.

Is it worth speaking to the PSB about this ? Could I gain anything ? I honestly don't have the will at the moment to fight a protracted battle over this. But maybe they would write a note of some sort on my file noting my circumstances ?

GeminiTiger

Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 999
Location: China, 2005--Present

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:19 am Post subject:

If you feel they dicked you in anyway I would threaten to complain to the PSB. However since your leaving China anyways I think you don't need to worry about it if in other things they treated you fairly.

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