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The Internationalist
Joined: 26 May 2012
Posts: 110
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 Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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First position with your limited experience... I'd think at the lower end of that range. But remember... no taxes in the UAE.
VS |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| scot47 wrote: |
| Many employers are wary of those with Korean "experience". I know of two in KSA that will NOT employ those who have worked in korea. |
Really? Who? Even if it's a uni? |
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madrileno
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 270
Location: Salalah, Oman
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| Really? Who? Even if it's a uni? |
Tertiary experience is fine. I think Scot may be referring to applicants with only Hagwon experience...
In Oman at least, I know experience in public/private elementary and secondary schools in Korea is fine, as long as you're applying to teach those grade levels. I've a friend in Muscat who worked in the Sultan School last year and she told me many teachers there were former employees of EPIK and SMOE in Korea as well as NET and JET in Hong Kong and Japan.
It's the former Hagwon workers employers here are weary of. Browsing Dave's Korea forums can provide enough reasons for this weariness. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:28 am Post subject: |
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While they may be weary, it is more likely that they are wary or leery.  Interesting combination of the two, but it does change the meaning...
Sorry... too many years teaching writing... 
VS |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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Canadian manager at ESL routinely put "Korean" CVs in the waste bin. Others I hear do the same. I mean, have you MET some of these guys who used to teach in Korea ?
Last edited by scot47 on Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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Well Scot... the same was true of many employers in the Gulf when they got an application from teachers in Saudi. Either employer may be missing out on some good teachers... (or avoiding THOSE guys to which you refer )
VS |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes, KSA on your CV is the KISS OF DEATH for jobs anywhere - except KSA. Maybe Afghanistan would look kindly on that period of your "professional" career. |
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huh?
Joined: 17 Mar 2011
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:47 am Post subject: |
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It seems that some ME state universities (Qatar, Kuwait, maybe UAE) could be phasing out expat EFL teachers. A lot of the private universities are not much fun to work in. Oman is a crap shoot and doesn't pay very well. Saudi used to have a few decent places (including IPE, which is not a university) but you would need to find someone who is more up-to-date than me on the situation in Saudi. I guess what I am trying to say is that 1) universities might take someone without much university-level experience, but the pay won't be very good, and 2) we might see EFL jobs in the ME start disappearing before long.
I would try to get the elementary math job. Once you get your foot in the door (possibly starting out with a not very good job), you could get decent jobs at international schools around the world. If you decide to go with ESL, also check out Japan and Taiwan as you might be able to find a decent job with pretty good pay there. You might also think about applying for a USIS/USIA fellowship if you go the EFL route. The pay will be so-so but if you get into a good position in the right country, it will be a great experience and will look great on your CV.
And be creative in your job search - the best jobs don't always advertise, you have to search them out. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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Dear huh?,
What's "IPE?" Did you mean "IPA?" (Institute of Public Administration)
Regards,
John |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| huh? wrote: |
| It seems that some ME state universities (Qatar, Kuwait, maybe UAE) could be phasing out expat EFL teachers. |
There isn't much evidence of this rumor. Qatar University is thus far the only university that has either talked about it or done anything about it. (UAEU attempted to re-locate the foundations courses to HCT, but that was abysmally planned and even more abysmally implemented and the idea sank into oblivion within a year - and it had nothing to do with getting rid of expat EFL teachers).
So QU is starting on its new program this year and we are all waiting to hear what is happening... or not happening. This move requires having more and more majors taught in Arabic. I think the rest of the universities in the Gulf are letting QU see how it works. If it succeeds (by their opinion), then the other countries may follow suit. But even under this new program, there is still scope for significant EFL teachers. While the Foundations program would be smaller, there would be more teachers within the content areas. For example. even if business is taught in Arabic, there is need for businesspeople in Qatar to speak English as business is very international in the Gulf. The need will change to General English from Academic English.
But, I see it as a gradual change which will take some years. IMHO, the need for EFL teachers in the Gulf will only significantly decline when they run out of oil...
VS |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| There may well be a drift to Arabic-medium Higher Education but some fields (Medicine, Engineering, Accountancy) will be taught through English for ever ! |
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huh?
Joined: 17 Mar 2011
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I meant IPA. Thanks.
As far as I know, Kuwait University hasn't hired English teachers from overseas for four years, but maybe it's just a temporary political thing. It will hire expats that are already in Kuwait. The long-term plan is for kids to learn enough English in school before they arrive at university. I know - it's kind if pie-in-the-sky, but about half the students in Medicine already have good enough English that they really only need a term of really good academic writing and reading, or a couple of courses that they take in conjunction with their content courses. That's not what's happening, but for the better half of students that would make more sense.
As far as I know, Medicine, Engineering, etc are going to be taught in English forever in Kuwait, but the plan is to have local teachers in the EFL positions. And what is the chance of an expat EFLtTeacher getting a good university job without first working 3-4 years in a country that doesn't pay well. When the teacher returns to America after a couple of years,they will most likely only find ESL jobs that pay badly and have bad benefits. Most decent jobs are probably in the school system, so the teacher would still need to get certified.
If I were just starting out, I would get certified to teach a content course. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| huh? wrote: |
| As far as I know, Kuwait University hasn't hired English teachers from overseas for four years, but maybe it's just a temporary political thing. It will hire expats that are already in Kuwait. The long-term plan is for kids to learn enough English in school before they arrive at university. I know - it's kind if pie-in-the-sky, but about half the students in Medicine already have good enough English that they really only need a term of really good academic writing and reading, or a couple of courses that they take in conjunction with their content courses. That's not what's happening, but for the better half of students that would make more sense. |
Yes, that has always been true of the students in medicine. When I was there, the women students were tops - just a semester or two of intensive reading/writing practice. The male students were the weak ones... who probably needed a couple years.
I had heard that they were only doing local hires. All of the Gulf countries are trying to upgrade their schools to help do away with those huge expensive Foundations programs. It is good sense actually... we will have to wait and see.
| huh? wrote: |
As far as I know, Medicine, Engineering, etc are going to be taught in English forever in Kuwait, but the plan is to have local teachers in the EFL positions. And what is the chance of an expat EFLtTeacher getting a good university job without first working 3-4 years in a country that doesn't pay well. When the teacher returns to America after a couple of years,they will most likely only find ESL jobs that pay badly and have bad benefits. Most decent jobs are probably in the school system, so the teacher would still need to get certified.
If I were just starting out, I would get certified to teach a content course. |
I think that medicine and engineering will continue to be taught in English, so there will always be some EFL work. I expect that the number of teachers will decrease, the question is how quickly.
As to work back home... well we all know that is a hopeless proposition. EFL was my second career and padded the retirement funds, but I wouldn't advise anyone to go into this field unless they have a back-up skill (teaching cert being the most common) that they can do if they ever want or need to return home.
VS |
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