Job Discussion Forums

johnslat · Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:37 pm Post subject:

Dear Sasha and johntpartee,

"And what of the structure 'noun + gerund(+noun)'? As in 'a heart-stopping moment' or a 'breath-taking lesson'? Are they really gerunds? I feel lots of wiggling coming on. Yes, a definite feeling of wiggling is coming upon me, threatening to upset those aspiring to impart an enlightening a-ha moment for those languishing in the unknowing depths."

Am I just being simple-minded? Maybe - but it seems pretty simple to me. If an -ing form is doing the job of a noun, it's a gerund - if it's doing the job of an adjective, it's a present participle.

So, with respect to "heart-stopping moment' and "breath-taking lesson", both -ing forms are telling something (what kind of moment, what kind of lesson) about the noun that follows - ergo, they're participles.

Simple seems good to me - and it's probably good for the students, too.

Regards,
John

Sashadroogie · Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:02 pm Post subject:

Swan doesn't agree that it is simple...

johntpartee · Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 3258

johnslat:

Yeah, that's good. That's a good "rule" (quotation marks are because I'm certain there must be exceptions, just like everything else in our bizarre, convoluted mother tongue).

Whaddya call the anomalies of English? JOB SECURITY!!

johnslat · Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:30 pm Post subject:

Dear Sasha,

Is anything in English "simple?" I'm sure that "exceptions" can be found for any/almost any rule in English. But I believe I'll stick to explaining the -ing differences (i.e. verb: part of a continuous/progressive tense, noun: gerund, adjective: participle) in a way that I think is easy/easier for my students to understand and use almost all of the time.

The second part of the verb - _____ing

If it does the job of a noun, it's a gerund.

If it does the job of an adjective, it's a participle.

If it does the job of a verb, it's one of the continuous/progressive tenses.

If it looks like a horse, walks like a horse, and talks like a horse, it's a horse - zebras be dammed. Very Happy

Regards,
John

Sashadroogie · Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 5:48 am Post subject:

Dear Johnslat

Zebras are damnably good for truly understanding horses - their origins, genetic make-up, behaviour etc. The existence of zebras can overturn any misconceptions and simplifications related to horses, leading to deeper, and more real, understanding of the fundamental unity between horsiness and zebraness.

Hic!

Black and white Sasha