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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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 Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| jaffa wrote: |
Agree with MEB - it's an awful contract, money-wise and vacation-wise, but a sign of things to come.
Behind the scenes, the Saudis will be getting nervous about the rumours/truth about their diminishing oil resources, and without this there is nothing here other than camels, despite the bluster about KSA being a centre of excellence ( ), etc. Therefore savings are already being made (ie. salaries) to give the locals (middle men in education) a bigger slice of the hand-outs.
Let's face it, anyone who has spent time here can see that education is merely a sham for flashing the cash and pretending all his hunky-dory. Most students don't have 2 brain cells to rub together.
Recently found out that if you take the oil and gas out of the economic equation for the 22 countries in the Arab world, then their COMBINED economies are HALF of Finland's. |
Your superfluous information is actually a biased rant which can hardly be useful for the OP in making an informed decision. |
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jaffa
Joined: 25 Oct 2012
Posts: 403
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:12 am Post subject: |
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Ahah, campy the man who speaks for everyone ... or just the site stalker?  |
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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| jaffa wrote: |
| Ahah, campy the man who speaks for everyone ... or just the site stalker? |
Try focusing on the message rather than the messenger. |
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Middle East Beast
Joined: 05 Mar 2008
Posts: 836
Location: Up a tree
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| cmp45 wrote: |
| Your superfluous information is actually a biased rant which can hardly be useful for the OP in making an informed decision. |
Now that's a biased rant.
I thought your post was spot-on, jaffa. Ignore the noise, and thanks for the stats on the Arab economies.
MEB  |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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Actually I agree with both Jaffa and cmp... this bit is always good.
| cmp45 wrote: |
| Try focusing on the message rather than the messenger. |
It is always best to not make things personal.
| jaffa wrote: |
| Let's face it, anyone who has spent time here can see that education is merely a sham for flashing the cash and pretending all his hunky-dory. Most students don't have 2 brain cells to rub together. |
Isn't all education about keeping the kiddies off the street and out of trouble for as much time as possible while indoctrinating them to whatever current culture has chosen as the message? And I do mean everywhere in the world.
I expect that they all have pretty much the same number of brain cells. But, the kids in the Middle East who make it to university are so poorly prepared... but let's blame the system, not the individual student.
VS |
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Middle East Beast
Joined: 05 Mar 2008
Posts: 836
Location: Up a tree
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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If cmp45 wants to police the threads for posts unrelated to the subject and correct others for them. then at least be consistent...go after the old heads on this forum who commit these "infractions" on a regular basis (though that doesn't bother me, BTW). That should keep cmp45 quite busy.
MEB |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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"Let's face it, anyone who has spent time here can see that education is merely a sham for flashing the cash and pretending all his hunky-dory. Most students don't have 2 brain cells to rub together. "
Gee - guess I didn't spend enough time there. Good, just what we need on this forum, yet another poster who judges the whole educational process in Saudi on the basis of his/her very limited experience.
Generalizations RULE.
Regards,
John |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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The students I came across in my years in KSA were no dumber than their agemates in Britain and Europe. In some respects, many of them were more mature - and more polite.
Last edited by scot47 on Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Middle East Beast
Joined: 05 Mar 2008
Posts: 836
Location: Up a tree
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| scot47 wrote: |
| The students I came across in my years in KSA were no dumber than their agemates in Britain and Europe. In some respects, many of them were more mature - and more poilite. |
I think we were in parallel KSA universes most of the time...there were a few good students, but I'm not gonna get into this bit of, "when I was there they were better than these guys or those guys in X country or Y country..." meaningless statements. What's the point of that? It's as pointless as the statement, "I'm safer in KSA than I am in my home country."
Maybe they had normal numbers of brain cells in KSA, but a lot of students in my classes and those of my colleagues over the years refused to use them. Many were offended by "lesser humans" telling them what to do. KSA students have an earned reputation. If they don't like it then they need to change their behavior toward us.
MEB |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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Dear MEB,
Here's the difference: scot47 and I talk only about the students that we had.
You and jaffa talk about ALL Saudi students:
"KSA students have an earned reputation. If they don't like it then they need to change their behavior toward us."
"Let's face it, anyone who has spent time here can see that education is merely a sham for flashing the cash and pretending all his hunky-dory. Most students don't have 2 brain cells to rub together. "
Regards,
John |
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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:05 am Post subject: |
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deleted
Last edited by cmp45 on Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:30 am Post subject: |
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| Middle East Beast wrote: |
| scot47 wrote: |
| The students I came across in my years in KSA were no dumber than their agemates in Britain and Europe. In some respects, many of them were more mature - and more poilite. |
I think we were in parallel KSA universes most of the time...there were a few good students, but I'm not gonna get into this bit of, "when I was there they were better than these guys or those guys in X country or Y country..." meaningless statements. What's the point of that? It's as pointless as the statement, "I'm safer in KSA than I am in my home country."
Maybe they had normal numbers of brain cells in KSA, but a lot of students in my classes and those of my colleagues over the years refused to use them. Many were offended by "lesser humans" telling them what to do. KSA students have an earned reputation. If they don't like it then they need to change their behavior toward us.MEB |
Really? The students need to change their behavior towards YOU? What are YOU doing to assist in this change? Respect is a two way street. After all the teacher is expected to be more mature, more experienced, more responsible than the student. Teachers that have a negative view about their host country, customs, life style, educational system are bound to project this negativity on to the students.
Why teach in a country that you despise? Oh right, I forgot...people desperate for money and willing to take any crap job that will accept them. If you don't like KSA, the simple solution would be to NOT get a job there. But still people will go and then later come on here and bash the students, customs, etc etc...nobody forces you to work in KSA. I am sorry if you had a terrible experience in KSA, but think most people have this arrogant notion that the host country should adapt to the person rather than the person adapting to the ways of the host country. |
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jaffa
Joined: 25 Oct 2012
Posts: 403
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| cmp45 wrote: |
| Why teach in a country that you despise? Oh right, I forgot...people desperate for money and willing to take any crap job that will accept them. If you don't like KSA, the simple solution would be to NOT get a job there. But still people will go and then later come on here and bash the students, customs, etc etc...nobody forces you to work in KSA. I am sorry if you had a terrible experience in KSA, but think most people have this arrogant notion that the host country should adapt to the person rather than the person adapting to the ways of the host country. |
Yawn.
Re. John Slattery, I wasn't talking about ALL students in Saudi, just the ones I teach, who are adults and differ only from the teenagers who I've taught in the past in that they are slightly less rude, yet equally lazy, brainwashed and ignorant (no doubt how the leaders wish them to be).
During the past 4 years I can think of 2 guys (from at least 400) who knew how to use their brain and understood that education will lead to better prospects. The rest just wanted the salary while doing nothing to earn it. A lot of them, pathetically, see it as some sort of badge of honour to do nothing.
The more time I've spent in other countries, the more I've enjoyed the culture. Here it is the very opposite because it's just the same old story over and over again and once my contract ends in June, I'm off. Masa-freaking-lamah |
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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| jaffa wrote: |
| cmp45 wrote: |
| Why teach in a country that you despise? Oh right, I forgot...people desperate for money and willing to take any crap job that will accept them. If you don't like KSA, the simple solution would be to NOT get a job there. But still people will go and then later come on here and bash the students, customs, etc etc...nobody forces you to work in KSA. I am sorry if you had a terrible experience in KSA, but think most people have this arrogant notion that the host country should adapt to the person rather than the person adapting to the ways of the host country. |
Yawn.
Re. John Slattery, I wasn't talking about ALL students in Saudi, just the ones I teach, who are adults and differ only from the teenagers who I've taught in the past in that they are slightly less rude, yet equally lazy, brainwashed and ignorant (no doubt how the leaders wish them to be).
During the past 4 years I can think of 2 guys (from at least 400) who knew how to use their brain and understood that education will lead to better prospects. The rest just wanted the salary while doing nothing to earn it. A lot of them, pathetically, see it as some sort of badge of honour to do nothing.
The more time I've spent in other countries, the more I've enjoyed the culture. Here it is the very opposite because it's just the same old story over and over again and once my contract ends in June, I'm off. Masa-freaking-lamah |
 well well well...students that just want a salary without doing anything? Sounds just like some teachers...you lasted 4 years in KSA... simply amazing it took you so long to finally call it quits in a place you seem to despise...guess you didn't quite get your fill of all that Saudi money. I suppose when you run out you can always come back to get more. The things people do for money sheesh...I feel sorry for the students that had YOU as a teacher. Yeah you best take off...Saudi Arabia is not for you |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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Dear jaffa,
"I wasn't talking about ALL students in Saudi, just the ones I teach . . ."
Thanks for the clarification. But perhaps you can see why I thought you were generalizing about all education and students in Saudi.
"Let's face it, anyone who has spent time here can see that education is merely a sham for flashing the cash and pretending all his hunky-dory. Most students don't have 2 brain cells to rub together."
One question, if I may - many/most contracts offer an end-of-service bonus. This usually is equal to 1/2 a month's salary for the first four years, but changes to a month's salary for each year after five years.
Does your contract have those conditions? If so, you must be really fed up with your situation to leave after four years when staying another year would make such a significant financial difference. So, if that's the case, I'll say this for you: you're putting your money where your mouth is, and that's
behavior I can respect.
Regards,
John |
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