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MuscatGary
Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 1364
Location: Flying around the ME...
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 Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Jerome Baxter wrote: |
| I stand by what I said: you hire someone, the responsibility is on the employer to ensure they're trained up properly for the job. |
Sounds like a justification for closing all colleges and universities if the requirement to train people falls on the employer even if the employee claims to have already been trained. |
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LongShiKong
Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 1082
Location: China
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| MuscatGary wrote: |
| Sounds like a justification for closing all colleges and universities if the requirement to train people falls on the employer even if the employee claims to have already been trained. |
Teaching's called a profession for a reason. Ever hear the expression 'publish or perish'? While, as has been mentioned the % of tenured profs has been diminishing, they're largely paid to professionalize--teaching is secondary, which is what's led to the debate. Remember those PD days when you were a kid? Anyone tell you what the acronym stood for? |
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MuscatGary
Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 1364
Location: Flying around the ME...
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| LongShiKong wrote: |
| MuscatGary wrote: |
| Sounds like a justification for closing all colleges and universities if the requirement to train people falls on the employer even if the employee claims to have already been trained. |
Teaching's called a profession for a reason. Ever hear the expression 'publish or perish'? While, as has been mentioned the % of tenured profs has been diminishing, they're largely paid to professionalize--teaching is secondary, which is what's led to the debate. Remember those PD days when you were a kid? Anyone tell you what the acronym stood for? |
There's a HUGE difference between helping teachers to improve and stay in touch with new developments and having to teach an English teacher the English language and classroom basics. |
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LongShiKong
Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 1082
Location: China
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| MuscatGary wrote: |
There's a HUGE difference between helping teachers to improve and stay in touch with new developments and having to teach an English teacher the English language and classroom basics. |
You're right, by insisting a school provide training (or any other benefit) not in one's contract, it's hard not to see Jerome as an entitlist. But I'm giving Jerome the benefit of the doubt here. More often than not, employees fail to show up for training if attendance is not compulsory. But if training's in the contract and not provided, as was the case at a well-known publisher-owned school I worked for, it's reasonable grounds for complaint. In my case, it was the least of my grievances. |
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LongShiKong
Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 1082
Location: China
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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I'll bet half the hits on this threat must come from those curious to know if we're all a bunch of volunteers or naive pushovers who can't say 'no'.
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MuscatGary
Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 1364
Location: Flying around the ME...
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| LongShiKong wrote: |
| [ou're right, by insisting a school provide training (or any other benefit) not in one's contract, it's hard not to see Jerome as an entitlist. But I'm giving Jerome the benefit of the doubt here. More often than not, employees fail to show up for training if attendance is not compulsory. But if training's in the contract and not provided, as was the case at a well-known publisher-owned school I worked for, it's reasonable grounds for complaint. In my case, it was the least of my grievances. |
If the training is free and in working hours then non-attendance is inexcusable and the worker should lose pay. We can't have it both ways. |
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Jerome Baxter
Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:39 am Post subject: |
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Well, I can see people have stopped responding in any meaningful way to this thread, so this seems as good a post to leave it on as any:
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| You're right, by insisting a school provide training (or any other benefit) not in one's contract, it's hard not to see Jerome as an entitlist. But I'm giving Jerome the benefit of the doubt here. |
Although I can't say I've ever heard the word before, you're darn right I'm an entitlist. We all work in an incredibly profitable industry in jobs that are difficult and stressful and we give up a lot for our employers and I think that means we're entitled to good pay and conditions and benefits and training and support and respect.
If that makes me an entitlist, so be it. |
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MuscatGary
Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 1364
Location: Flying around the ME...
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Jerome Baxter wrote: |
| We all work in an incredibly profitable industry in jobs that are difficult and stressful and we give up a lot for our employers and I think that means we're entitled to good pay and conditions and benefits and training and support and respect. If that makes me an entitlist, so be it. |
No we don't and I've said this several times. Many of us work in the state sector. It's not for profit. |
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rtm
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| MuscatGary wrote: |
| No we don't and I've said this several times. Many of us work in the state sector. It's not for profit. |
This is a good point. Similarly, I've spent my entire EFL/ESL career working for not-for-profit institutions, and I think that has probably colored my perspective. I don't see 'getting my piece of the pie' as a motivating factor. I "give up a lot for [my] employers", not so that they can get rich, but so that they can provide, successfully and at a high level, the services that they were designed to provide. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Spiral, I'd really appreciate a response to this. |
I am currently enjoying a week of the generous paid holiday provided by my truly excellent employer and am not inclined to waste time disagreeing with what is clearly (in my opinion) a silly useless endeavor to take the responsibility off of teachers and put it on employers. Not to mention in a context in which regulation is impossible by definition. |
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LongShiKong
Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 1082
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:13 am Post subject: |
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| Jerome Baxter wrote: |
| I wrote: |
| You're right, by insisting a school provide training (or any other benefit) not in one's contract, it's hard not to see Jerome as an entitlist. But I'm giving Jerome the benefit of the doubt here. |
Although I can't say I've ever heard the word before, you're darn right I'm an entitlist. We all work in an incredibly profitable industry in jobs that are difficult and stressful and we give up a lot for our employers and I think that means we're entitled to good pay and conditions and benefits and training and support and respect.
If that makes me an entitlist, so be it. |
The word 'entitlist' derives from the sense of 'entitled' as meaning:
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An attitude, demeanor, or air of rudeness, ingraciousness, or combativeness, especially when making excessive demands for service (usually used following the word "acted")
The foreign student was extremely rude and acted entitled when she came into the International Students Office, snapping her fingers to get the attention of the help desk volunteer.
This rich a$$hole came into the store and acted all entitled, barking commands at me like a butler. |
Is the ESL/EFL industry any more profitable than others? You claim it is but haven't provided any evidence. One of the most profitable industries is fast food where the income disparity between average workers and CEOs is 1,000%. Even more profitable is the beverage industry: bottled (tap) water sells for 1,000% of what you pay at home. I think we'd all agree there's far more risk involved for a competent fast food worker to quit and go solo than there is for a competent language teacher.
That's why Situation 2 is so revealing. |
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