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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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 Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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Bumping this thread.
(I've recently received a couple of PMs asking about classroom observations.) |
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kev20
Joined: 31 Jul 2013
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
I left that off deliberately. It's a grey area, I think.
On qualifications: basically, the observer who is going to evaluate one should have quals and experience at least equal to one's own. However, I've also gotten very useful feedback from newbies with fresh eyes - though I don't necessarily think that they should be doing official evaluations.
Experience in a specific teaching context is also an important factor.
I'd accept evaluations from someone somewhat less-qualified than me in general, but with lots more experience in the specific teaching context.
On training, being a part of a professional development team is very useful; experience as a CELTA or other trainer can be helpful; DELTA is even better in some ways.... and I've worked with very talented teachers who have none of the above, but are still outstanding evaluators.
So far as what to do while evaluating, that also varies pretty widely, I believe. I have often integrated a visitor to my classes into the class (they interact directly with students and with me), but that's not appropriate in every case, depending on what's being evaluated.
The details are really very context-specific - it would be difficult to lay out good guidelines that would apply in most situaitons. |
My employer has recently said that they will change obversations in that we won't be informed when they'll take place in order to get a more genuine account of our classes and the school environment (what we have to deal with).
They stressed this is not an attempt to catch us out but merely to find out what it is like for us on a normal day.
Personally I don't see the point in giving advanced notice. I've observed Chinese teachers before and it's so obvious that the class has had that same lesson in the previous days. I think the students may even know which specific questions they are resposible for answering. With advanced notice it is kind of pointless.
Then again, even surprise visits are kind of pointless and won't tell the story. It could be a great class or a terrible class. Nobody has a great lesson every week and it isn't that easy to predict how the classes are going to respond.
I think if you're in a public school the school itself is going to be the judge and the deciding factor on whether you get a new contract. Observations from outside agents are just for show and the real importance of them happens before and after the lesson. They will talk to the school and to us and get most of the information they came to get. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| kev20 wrote: |
| Personally I don't see the point in giving advanced notice. I've observed Chinese teachers before and it's so obvious that the class has had that same lesson in the previous days. I think the students may even know which specific questions they are resposible for answering. With advanced notice it is kind of pointless. |
That's likely the situation where there isn't an established observation policy and procedure and/or team. Or those who do the observations haven't been properly trained. Or classroom observations don't carry much weight. Or...
Another problem with advance notice is that some teachers rehearse or script their lesson in an effort to make a strong impression to the observers. Unfortunately, their teaching becomes an obvious staged presentation because they don't fully engage the class for fear the students will make them go off script.
I taught in higher ed in the Mid East, and for the majority of the formal observations I'd experienced, we were required to provide the observers with a written lesson plan or outline in advance of the observation. (We were all expected to be in sync in terms of where we were in the modules; it avoided the problem of teachers repeating lessons from earlier in the week.) We were also allowed to choose the date for our observations and could meet with the observers any day prior to their classroom visit. The classroom was viewed as the teacher's domain; observers didn't want to feel like they were encroaching on the teacher's space and relationship with the students.
| and kev20 wrote: |
| Then again, even surprise visits are kind of pointless and won't tell the story. It could be a great class or a terrible class. Nobody has a great lesson every week and it isn't that easy to predict how the classes are going to respond. |
The problem with impromptu visits is that the observer(s) may pop in at a time when the students are taking a quiz, quietly working on their essay drafts, completing a worksheet, etc. That doesn't give the observer(s) much to observe, and therefore, it's a waste of their time. That said, there's nothing wrong with visiting the class unexpectedly for a short, informal observation to get a sense of the overall feel of the classroom dynamics -- how the teacher engages the students and how the students interact with each other. |
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getbehindthemule
Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 712
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:20 am Post subject: |
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It was only yesterday that I had my Science lesson observed by an external visitor (a Chinese Science teacher from a different school) for the first time in ages. Athough I was a little bit nervous beforehand, it went great. There was nothing staged about it, just a regular class continuing on from our previous lesson.
I find the staged lessons that I've seen the Chinese teachers perform hilarious. I really wish one of the students would just shout out 'why are we doing this again?' or 'we did this last week!'  |
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getbehindthemule
Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 712
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:32 am Post subject: Re: Teacher observations |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
Ah... teacher observations. You either love 'em, dread 'em, or are somewhere in the middle.
What are your overall feelings about being observed and/or performing observations as part of your job? Are they an effective evaluation tool or just a waste of time? If you've never been observed, please comment as well. |
In my job (in China) I either have the homeroom teacher or a TA attending my lesson. So I'm being constantly observed I guess.
I have been asked to observe some Science lessons at other schools. I feel you can always learn something from this, whether it's a good or bad teacher you are observing, so it's useful to a point. But here in China I find there is not too much feedback or evaluation either way really (observe for the sake of observing). |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| getbehindthemule wrote: |
In my job (in China) I either have the homeroom teacher or a TA attending my lesson. So I'm being constantly observed I guess.
I have been asked to observe some Science lessons at other schools. I feel you can always learn something from this, whether it's a good or bad teacher you are observing, so it's useful to a point. But here in China I find there is not too much feedback or evaluation either way really (observe for the sake of observing). |
If they're just in the room helping you, that's not exactly an observation. However, peer observations can be very useful if you and your co-teacher (usually a teacher rather than an assistant) agree to informally observe each other teaching and then sit together to exchange constructive feedback.
I set up such a program for the teachers I supervised, and at first, they were skeptical; they didn't feel their peers were experienced enough to give credible feedback. I created observation sheets with just five basic criteria items to assess so that they wouldn't feel overwhelmed. After some initial hesitation, they were sold on the idea, and within a couple of weeks they were booked solid with peer observations and enjoying the experience. Not surprising, they particularly liked that they were picking up new activities and teaching strategies from each other. Peer observations can reinforce collaboration and group problem solving.
Have you ever asked the homeroom teacher or TA for general feedback about your teaching? Since you're the teacher, do you feel they'd give you an honest opinion if they saw you do something they disagreed with or had suggestions for improvement? |
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getbehindthemule
Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 712
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| getbehindthemule wrote: |
In my job (in China) I either have the homeroom teacher or a TA attending my lesson. So I'm being constantly observed I guess.
I have been asked to observe some Science lessons at other schools. I feel you can always learn something from this, whether it's a good or bad teacher you are observing, so it's useful to a point. But here in China I find there is not too much feedback or evaluation either way really (observe for the sake of observing). |
If they're just in the room helping you, that's not exactly an observation. However, peer observations can be very useful if you and your co-teacher (usually a teacher rather than an assistant) agree to informally observe each other teaching and then sit together to exchange constructive feedback.
I set up such a program for the teachers I supervised, and at first, they were skeptical; they didn't feel their peers were experienced enough to give credible feedback. I created observation sheets with just five basic criteria items to assess so that they wouldn't feel overwhelmed. After some initial hesitation, they were sold on the idea, and within a couple of weeks they were booked solid with peer observations and enjoying the experience. Not surprising, they particularly liked that they were picking up new activities and teaching strategies from each other. Peer observations can reinforce collaboration and group problem solving.
Have you ever asked the homeroom teacher or TA for general feedback about your teaching? Since you're the teacher, do you feel they'd give you an honest opinion if they saw you do something they disagreed with or had suggestions for improvement? |
Thanks for the response, very interesting, and I agree with the 'picking up new activities and strategies'. This can be very advantageous to the observer.
It is usually the homeroom teachers and yes, I do ask for feedback and we do sometimes discuss the lessons to a point. I feel Chinese teachers, with the losing face thing, are often reluctant to give constuctive negative feedback.
Even though it feels a little bit uncomfortable at first, I think what you are suggesting might be very useful. I think I will arrange this with a Science teacher from a sister school (maybe once per week for a few weeks to see how it goes). Thanks. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| I cannot recollect many teacher observations that were useful to me in my development as a teacher. My experience - especially in the Middle East - is that these were used as part of the power struggle by management ! |
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ExpatLuke
Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 744
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| scot47 wrote: |
| I cannot recollect many teacher observations that were useful to me in my development as a teacher. My experience - especially in the Middle East - is that these were used as part of the power struggle by management ! |
I found observations to be extremely helpful to my development as a teacher. There are just a lot of things you can't see in yourself unless someone else comes along and points it out. My teaching has improved from both being observed and observing others.
I honestly believe both should be a part of any teacher's job. A quarterly observation will keep you sharp and give you fresh eyes.
Of course this assumes your teaching is more than just lecturing. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| ExpatLuke wrote: |
| Of course this assumes your teaching is more than just lecturing. |
Lecturing is when teachers come across as rehearsed. A true classroom observation is just that: observing the teacher-student interaction. Some teachers, however, believe the observer is there to watch them go through the motions of teaching and that the students aren't relevant to the observation. |
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RedLightning
Joined: 08 Aug 2015
Posts: 137
Location: United States
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| scot47 wrote: |
| I cannot recollect many teacher observations that were useful to me in my development as a teacher. My experience - especially in the Middle East - is that these were used as part of the power struggle by management ! |
The only observation I had just so happened to occur the day after I had mentioned the internal struggles of the English department to an engineering professor.
Under the guise of department-wide observations, only three of us were observed and none received a contract extension(of the other two, one had kicked up dust with HR several times prior to). |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Lecturing is when teachers come across as rehearsed. A true classroom observation is just that: observing the teacher-student interaction. |
I disagree with this definition of lecturing; I think of lecturing as a lesson heavy on teacher output and light on student involvement.
I supervise a wide net of teachers across the CEE region (they are not language teachers, but many of them teach in English). Many of them are in institutions where lecturing is very much the norm and for them to do anything radically different would diminish their credibility. We aim for them to at least deliver thoughtfully designed lectures that take the students into account in as many ways as possible.
They meet up for a week every summer and do practice lessons in groups of about 10 for feedback and discussion with their colleagues and myself or another pedagogical mentor (a professional educator). We all find these events useful; sharing stuff that works and getting advice to improve weaker points.
The summer event also includes seminars, some of which are delivered by some pretty big stars, but the actual hands-on practice teaching and the discussions around it always garner the highest evaluations from the participants.
I think that how useful observations are depends VERY heavily on the context and the approaches taken. When they are collaborative and focused on ongoing development rather than evaluative, most teachers respond positively to the exercise in my experience. |
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CTravel32
Joined: 01 Mar 2017
Posts: 85
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| Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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Why dread them? If the teacher has been trained in regards to how to give a meaningful, non judgmental observation without ¨cheerleading¨, they can be very useful. Give constructive advice, ask questions that will help the teacher to reflect on what they can improve on and just take note of student/teacher interaction.
In regards to that last note, a constructive class should have at least a 70/30 ratio, where teachers direct 30% of the class at most. The other 70% or more would be student output time either as individuals, pairs or small groups. A teacher should utilize all 3 of the following: individual, pair/group and entire class in one class, make sure students move around a little, even if just to switch seats. The groups could be split up to accommodate for differentiated instruction or even having the more advanced students re-teaching certain concepts to the students who are behind. Every class should have the students ending the class having produced something of competence (the class might agree on what competence might look like according to the assignment, with the aid of the teacher before the assignment is given). |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| CTravel32 wrote: |
Why dread them? If the teacher has been trained in regards to how to give a meaningful, non judgmental observation without ¨cheerleading¨, they can be very useful. Give constructive advice, ask questions that will help the teacher to reflect on what they can improve on and just take note of student/teacher interaction.
In regards to that last note, a constructive class should have at least a 70/30 ratio, where teachers direct 30% of the class at most. The other 70% or more would be student output time either as individuals, pairs or small groups. A teacher should utilize all 3 of the following: individual, pair/group and entire class in one class, make sure students move around a little, even if just to switch seats. The groups could be split up to accommodate for differentiated instruction or even having the more advanced students re-teaching certain concepts to the students who are behind. Every class should have the students ending the class having produced something of competence (the class might agree on what competence might look like according to the assignment, with the aid of the teacher before the assignment is given). |
Uh, actually, you're being quite prescriptive here. As noted above, mine are not teaching language, and even if they were, one-size-doesn't-fit-all situations. |
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CTravel32
Joined: 01 Mar 2017
Posts: 85
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| Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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I am not sure how what wrote is at all a one size approach. That is the exact opposite of what differentiated instruction is in fact (a mention in my previous post). A teacher should be flexible actually. Also, I was also not addressing any one person in particular (other than pointing out how the OP said ¨dread¨) either, including yourself.
So then, what does a constructive, useful class look like to you if I am being ¨prescriptive¨? If a class does not have variety, some movement and ends up in the student producing something, what exactly should a class look like? |
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