|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
rollingk
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 212
|
 Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:05 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| Quote: |
Repeated absences, negligence in completing written assignments, and lack of participation in public speaking all contribute to the phenomenon of Saudi students leaving the UK with a degree but with poor English language skills. Some students graduate and they still struggle when speaking English, even to order a cup of coffee,” said Al-Swaidan.
|
Thanks for posting this NS. I've always wondered how some of my non-native colleagues in the worse places I've taught in KSA could have gotten a degree in the US or UK, but not speak the language . . . never mind they're teaching it here. I still don't really understand it. How do students manage to graduate with any sort of degree from a US or UK university at all if they're so negligent? The universities in the US and UK must be complicit and faulty. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| rollingk wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Repeated absences, negligence in completing written assignments, and lack of participation in public speaking all contribute to the phenomenon of Saudi students leaving the UK with a degree but with poor English language skills. Some students graduate and they still struggle when speaking English, even to order a cup of coffee,” said Al-Swaidan. |
Thanks for posting this NS. I've always wondered how some of my non-native colleagues in the worse places I've taught in KSA could have gotten a degree in the US or UK, but not speak the language . . . never mind they're teaching it here. I still don't really understand it. How do students manage to graduate with any sort of degree from a US or UK university at all if they're so negligent? The universities in the US and UK must be complicit and faulty. |
For clarification, this particular article focused on the Saudi-UK ESL experience as being less successful compared to the Saudi-USA ESL learning situation. Apparently, unlike US universities, UK unis don't offer their own intensive English programs to prepare students for the transition into academic studies in an English-speaking environment; language learners are expected to attend general ESL classes at private language schools. Obviously, culture (i.e., cultural identity, cultural differences, culture shock, and cultural acclimation) play a key role in Saudi students' success regardless of which country they head to for university studies.
Another point to keep in mind is that people immediately return to their home countries after completing their MA or PhD. If they don't make a conscious effort to continue to use English at home or work, they'll lose those language skills. Even those who reached a high level of proficiency while abroad aren't immune to second-language attrition. (How many of us were once practically fluent in another language but can now barely make complete sentences do to lack of practice?) Moreover, Saudi culture is even more susceptible to this problem because it's a segregated and somewhat closed society with social hierarchies. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rollingk
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 212
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
NS, I think you've misunderstood me. My comment was a mere sidebar. Although the article focused on Saudi students, my comment was about the flood of non-native speakers with UK and US passports, who are employed in KSA teaching English, but many of whom can speak very little of the language. Somehow, like those returning Saudi students, they have also managed to get degrees without any proficiency in the language.
The article you put up hints at how this might happen, but in the end I can only attribute their success to very low standards at some tertiary institutions in the two countries. Also, although your point is well taken as regards language attrition, the almost complete absence of language skills by some returning degreed Saudis cannot be completely explained by this attrition.
But anyway, these ESL teachers are constantly exposed to the language as they are purportedly teaching it. I just don't understand how they managed to get those degrees, and some of them in the humanities. Anyone got any info on this? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cultofpersonality
Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 94
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| The Higher Education system in Britain doesn't really prepare students for writing in the disciplines in the same way the American universities do. From what I understand, the American universities make you study this whether you are a native speaker or not as they realise a lot of native speakers have literacy gaps. British universities are still negligent in this area and there is no clear system in place to ensure all students have the academic skills necessary to succeed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
