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Kysorb
Joined: 30 Jul 2010
Posts: 253
Location: Beijing
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 Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:59 am Post subject: |
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Where I work we would never have a 3 strikes and your out rule however there would be a clause some where in the contract that says poor performance may result in termination.
Its hard to believe but you really should see some of the grim undertaker-esq teachers that you can find around the industry. Not everyone doing this job is cut out for this job and the schools do look to put clauses in the contract to protect them from such people. |
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Denim-Maniac
Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1238
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| ^^^ we also have clauses and penalties for the same reason. It really comes down to the employer TBH - Some may remove or not include any clauses that may give cause for concern, then treat you like dirt. Others, like my employer, may include a number of clauses that could cause alarm on this forum, yet they treat us very well (and never act upon the clauses in the contract). |
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mcloo7
Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 434
Location: Hangzhou
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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The other thing is the contract says that after the two month probation period, ending the probation is at the school's discretion, and they could extend it. Is this normal?
Does anyone work at a language school that has you working until 9 or 9:30 on Friday nights and then you have to start at 9 am on Saturday morning? I'm a little concerned about this because Im going to be used to staying up late due to working nights during the week, and then Im going to have to try to get myself to fall asleep at a reasonable time on Friday nights so I can be fresh for Saturday. Does anyone have problems with this? |
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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| mcloo7 wrote: |
.....Is this normal?
.....Does anyone have problems with this? |
what does it matter whether or not it's normal? that's the way that
particular school does things. accept it, negotiate, or decline.
what does it matter if anyone else has a problem with it? YOU have a
problem with it. move on to the next school.......
you seem to be ignoring everybody's advice, and i'm afraid you're going
to be the next [search item] hewlett. |
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teachingld2004
Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Posts: 389
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:41 pm Post subject: ADVICE |
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Thisis my last post on this topic.
OP, listen to the advice that you asked for.
DO NOT TAKE THIS JOB. There are so many jobs here.
THIS JOB IS A RECIPE FOR FAILURE.
There are lots of jobs here
Go for a University or H.S.
My job has an openinfg
. We all love it here People stay for 5 years.
PM me for details.
Language mills are hit or miss. Universities are hit or miss also
You want a good job. Forget the job you are thinking about. I do not like it YOU sound like u do not like it.
Here the teahers are treated like gold Really The only problems are that we can not get our apartments fixed. Welcome to China. THIS IS THE NORM.
Anyway, adios. If you want to hear any more from meeee PM me i am done with this topic. |
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lemak
Joined: 19 Nov 2011
Posts: 368
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| xiguagua wrote: |
| As far as what the Chinese teachers make.......don't let the teachers fool you into thinking you make soooooo much more because you don't. There are "bonuses" and gifts and bribes to consider that we're not eligible for, as well as them doing additional teaching and tutoring outside of the school. They've got houses.......nice houses......they've got nice cars......and they're not getting them by living off 3k a month...... |
The Chinese teachers are very fond of quoting this line. I think they've had it drummed into their head that the evil laowai is making serious coin, whilst they are getting shafted.
Base pay wise, granted my pay is higher than the local staff, but factor in their 1,000 a month shopping card, 1,000 per month housing bonus (stay on campus for free and keep this money), 12 month salary as opposed to the 10 month salary the foreign teachers are on, 200 per month canteen card which can be used in the school supermarkets, annual attendance bonus, performance bonus, holiday bonus, junket to the sister school in the U.S in vacation, monthly outings etc. Their overall pay easily surpasses ours. There's a reason they are driving Audis and Volvos whilst I pedal around on a Giant.
One Chinese co-worker actually had the audacity to tell me once "Please don't start class early or let class out early or the teaching department will lose points and the teachers may lose their annual bonus"
Me : "Oh~ We get a bonus??"
Her : "No. Not you. Only the Chinese teachers"
Great. Class dismissed, lol.
Recruiters love quoting that line about the average pay for Chinese being 1,500rmb per month. Maybe in a garment factory in Guangdong a decade ago, or in the rice paddies of deep, dark Xishuanbanna, but certainly not in places like Hangzhou or Shenzhen. Average income in those cities is up around 13,000USD per year. 6,500rmb or some crap. Work for the average uni pay or substandard training school gig in places like that and you're living on the poverty line.
You've had pretty consistent advice from posters with hundreds of years of collective Chinese teaching experience, McLoo. Ignore it at your peril. |
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mcloo7
Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 434
Location: Hangzhou
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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I'm just trying to see if this is a standard contract for a language center. I'm taking everybody's advice into consideration. But Denim-Maniac said he has similar clauses in his contract and it depends on the employer as to whether they carry them out or not.
I just want to get to China. Ive been thinking about this for about a year. And Im tired of looking at jobs, and tired of interviewing. The worst that happens is I quit or get fired, and then get another job right? |
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unesco
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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If you are really serious about coming to China you are going to have to make the leap sometime.
No job is going to be perfect and you are going to have to deal with the problems when they arise. But you will find that most people are able to cope, survive and enjoy their stay here.
Everyone's experience will be different. If you come with a positive attitude and are willing to accept that most things will be different from where you come from you'll be ok.
As to the training centre job, methinks it could have been a good choice, Location not bad, pay and conditions reasonable. Regarding the agument of 'work at a uni for 5,000 and do some privates on the side'. Well it usually takes time to make these sort of contacts, especially when adjusting to everything else. I could live on 5 grand but not sure that I'd want to.
cheers |
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Kysorb
Joined: 30 Jul 2010
Posts: 253
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:02 am Post subject: |
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| mcloo7 wrote: |
I'm just trying to see if this is a standard contract for a language center. I'm taking everybody's advice into consideration. But Denim-Maniac said he has similar clauses in his contract and it depends on the employer as to whether they carry them out or not.
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They only carry these clauses out if they think they can get a much better teacher than you easily. If they like you and you are friendly and fun then just because a parent complains they won't care.
Keep in mind that bringing a teacher over from another country is a gamble for the school and it still might not fix the problem because most teachers are just average when they begin working and all schools with experience know this.
If your working with a Chinese teacher and she says all your classes suck to her management and the parents of all your students say your classes suck then they will look for ways to remove you.
It is important to note however that if your school is getting you a Z-visa and they normally get all their teachers Z visas then replacing you isn't that easy a job and they would usually do so only at the end of a term. However, when parents are complaining about your your class, and your co-teachers think your creepy, boring, or dress like a homeless person, then you are giving the school few options but to try to replace you. Where I work however my experience is they would still usually only do this when they are hiring a new batch of teachers. If they do this during the term then you are probably a major headache for them and completely unmarketable.
Working at a language training school is also about having pride and charisma as well as a fun personality. Common sense on this subject will win out even in China. Employers dealing with staff will act just like water behaves in nature and take the cheapest path of least resistance. For established schools saving money is rarely the issue; the problems you cause them is. If you don't cause problems you won't have many problems from them. |
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Denim-Maniac
Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1238
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Kysorb wrote: |
| mcloo7 wrote: |
I'm just trying to see if this is a standard contract for a language center. I'm taking everybody's advice into consideration. But Denim-Maniac said he has similar clauses in his contract and it depends on the employer as to whether they carry them out or not.
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They only carry these clauses out if they think they can get a much better teacher than you easily.
Keep in mind that bringing a teacher over from another country is a gamble for the school and it still might not fix the problem because most teachers are just average when they begin working and all schools with experience know this.
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I did say that, and I also agree with the above.
This is why you need good contact with current employees. When people email me about my current employment I answer at length and in detail, hopefully remembering to point out differences that may exist for new teachers when compared to experienced ones. I would like to think Im honest when answering such queries, just as I like to think Im fair on this forum. At the end of the day, and we have been talking about it for ages, you have to take a leap of faith at some stage buddy! |
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lemak
Joined: 19 Nov 2011
Posts: 368
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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Echoing the others. You'll never find a contract that is seemingly 100% perfect. As your first gig in country you'll likely have to take a leap of faith at some point. Likely you'll arrive and more than once the thought of "Shit. What have I done?" will cross your mind. Be it at the sight of someone pooing outside your filthy apartment, or at the horror of realizing it's actually your boss pooing outside your filthy apartment.
Most of the crap in the contracts in Asia are ass covering clauses. At the end of the day the interpersonal relationships are a lot stronger. Get along with the FAO and other staff and you can just about break every clause in the contract. Do a good enough job, but suck at the relationship building side of things and find you don't get yourself renewed.
Sort out the basics (pay, living conditions, hours, visa), check the gripes or positives from (preferably more than one) current teacher, have enough money saved to bail if things don't turn out as planned, and come on over. Worst comes to worst and you have a few months sleeping in a bed bug riddled sweat box and a good story for the grandkids.
Like any job you're never going to find something that satisfies *all* criteria. Good enough is often good enough. |
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Denim-Maniac
Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1238
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| Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:06 am Post subject: |
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| lemak wrote: |
Most of the crap in the contracts in Asia are ass covering clauses. At the end of the day the interpersonal relationships are a lot stronger. Get along with the FAO and other staff and you can just about break every clause in the contract. Do a good enough job, but suck at the relationship building side of things and find you don't get yourself renewed.
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Best advice in the whole thread. |
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julianne.yue
Joined: 25 Apr 2013
Posts: 14
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:24 am Post subject: |
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I don't know anything about the school, but I have traveled to Hangzhou this past summer, the overall environment was great.
It was a nice place, not too dangerous, as some cities in China can get a little crazy. |
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mcloo7
Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 434
Location: Hangzhou
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| Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:15 am Post subject: |
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| julianne.yue wrote: |
I don't know anything about the school, but I have traveled to Hangzhou this past summer, the overall environment was great.
It was a nice place, not too dangerous, as some cities in China can get a little crazy. |
thanks |
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DosEquisX
Joined: 09 Dec 2010
Posts: 361
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| Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| choudoufu wrote: |
feedback: get a uni job in a smaller city, or preferably a vocational school.
z-visa and accommodations provided. no probation, no silly clauses (that
can't be negotiated out), no 3-kids-complained rule.
find yourself a light workload, 12 hours per week, which would be 6
classes, each consisting of two 45-minute blocks. if lucky, you can
repeat some (or all) of the classes each week, cutting down on lesson
plans.
you'll have abundancies of time to research lesson plans, lots of opportunity
to refine your technique. the interwebs has a gazillion ready-made lesson
plans available for download. find 'em, use 'em.
you don't need to physically reside in shenzhen. you'll get plenty of
vacation time to visit. better to find a more relaxed area, with less
pollution and traffic, to live in. |
QFT. Thread over.
OP, follow this advice if you haven't already. |
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