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Pitarou
Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan
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 Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: Who cares/deal with it....move elsewhere or don't..!! |
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| Kitkat Biriyani wrote: |
What are "whities"....
Just a made up word like 'definately'
Confooooozed |
whitey, whity: noun, chiefly US, slang, disparaging and offensive, sometimes initial capital letter a white person or white people collectively
plural whities
origin 1820-1830
Less confoooozed now? |
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Kitkat Biriyani
Joined: 10 Jul 2013
Posts: 51
Location: New Venkatanarasimharajuvaripea, Missouri, USA, Q!Q!QQQ!!!
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| Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| no.... |
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steki47
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: BFE Inaka
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| Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Waygeek wrote: |
| would like to see their faces if they knew people refer to the Japanese the same way! |
Last week, I was a judge at the English speech contest in my town. One of the contestants was a Chinese teen who was born and raised in Japan. She spoke of her family constantly overhearing Japanese speak negatively of Chinese ("Chinese people are stupid/rude/the worst").
She then went into a very articulate call for people to look beyond their stereotypes and see others as individuals, etc. Noble rhetoric and a very good speech (she made it into the final round and will go on the prefectural competition).
The room of 3-400 people went completely quiet and everyone looked really uncomfortable.
PS-The Chinese are hardly innocent in this matter and are capable of rather intense anti-Japanese sentiment. |
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weigookin74
Joined: 30 Mar 2010
Posts: 265
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| Rooster_2006 wrote: |
| steki47 wrote: |
| nightsintodreams wrote: |
| Racism does exist in Japan but I think as whities who have never experienced any real racism we exaggerate it a little too much. |
I would challenge this. As a white guy myself, I have certainly encountered anti-white hostility in the US. Mostly in California. And it wasn't simply staring, it occasionally turned violent.
Frankly, I would rather be a gaijin in Japan than a white boy in Oakland. |
I agree with steki47.
I'm white, and I spent nine and a half years in other Asian countries (Korea, Hong Kong, and Taiwan) prior to moving to Japan. I experienced more than my fair share of racism in all of those places, ranging from the fairly benign (children in Taiwan constantly announcing WAIGUOREN or LAOWAI and pointing at me) to very dangerous (physical assaults on the street in Korea). When I was a middle school student in Hong Kong, I angered one of my Chinese classmates (who was also my neighbor who lived in the same building as I) when, in a class project, I dared to insinuate that the Chinese Communist Party under Mao Zedong was "evil" (not Chinese people, but the CCP under Mao Zedong, i.e. an entity that most people in the world, even Hong Kongers, agree was evil). He tried to beat me up in our apartment building.
I'm not unique, either. I'm sure that lots of white English teachers in Japan have experienced real racism before coming here. Maybe they lived in/passed through neighborhoods that were hostile to whites in their home countries. Maybe before coming to Japan, they lived abroad in a country where they were a minority. Or maybe they came from a "backlash" country like South Africa or Zimbabwe where whites are now actively persecuted. Nobody should assume that just because someone is white, that person has had an existence free from racial discrimination. Because in my case, and as it seems, in steki47's case, that is certainly not true.
Now, all of that said, racism in Japan (at least against whites) is relatively low compared to other Asian countries. You're much more likely to get assaulted in Korea. You're much less likely to get pointed at and laughed at by children than in Taiwan. There's definitely racism here, too, but it's at a level that is much more manageable than *most* other countries in Asia. |
Tell me more about getting assaulted in Korea. I had lived in Korea for several years and have never been assaulted. Though things could have escalated a couple of times due to racism from dating Korean women. There was a whole smackload of it there. You could feel hatred or indifference from people there. But, since 2010 to 2011ish, it seemed to have changed quite radically overnight. Nowadays, the country seems quite open to foriegners (western ones anyhow) and no one seems to care about dating as much as before.
My question is if Korea can open itself up and shift it's thinking from xenophobic in the past decade, what is Japan's excuse? It has been open to the world far longer than SK. Is it the language barrier? Koreans learn English while most Japanese don't? Not sure on that.
To be sure there are still unfriendly voices in Korea, but many farmers have migrant wives and some foriegners have married Koreans and eventually got permanent residence.
Up until 2010, Korea was prob one of the most xenophobic places going. Then it seemed to change in a heart beat. It was quite shocking to me at how friendly people had become. Again, what is Japan's excuse? Some of the statements I had read on here about Japanese refusing outside help with Fukushima due to different soil samples and foriegners might scare the elderly. This is some of the most primitive stupidity ever.
But, please, do tell. Assaulted in Korea? |
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Vince
Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 559
Location: U.S.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:49 am Post subject: |
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| Solar Strength wrote: |
| I mean, the Japanese are very tolerant in that they allow people like me - us - to come here and teach them english. |
I wouldn't describe it as very tolerant. It's not about them welcoming us, but about bringing in native speakers on a short-term basis so that the Japanese can have safe access to foreigners and native English.
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| Are the Japanese really okay with foreigners settling long-term in Japan and making Japan home? Or are they anxious about foreigners coming to Japan and wanting to settle and have families and lives? |
They definitely don't want immigration populations like those of the major Western countries. Some of it is about preserving their perceived ethnic purity, and some of it is about foreigners disrupting their harmony and forcing changes.
Imagine a made-for-TV movie called Japan 2100, with an entirely mixed-ethnicity cast living in an evolved and somewhat less prosperous Japanese culture. It would be interesting to see the Japanese reaction to that movie. |
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Solar Strength
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 557
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:49 am Post subject: |
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| Vince wrote: |
| Solar Strength wrote: |
| Are the Japanese really okay with foreigners settling long-term in Japan and making Japan home? Or are they anxious about foreigners coming to Japan and wanting to settle and have families and lives? |
They definitely don't want immigration populations like those of the major Western countries. Some of it is about preserving their perceived ethnic purity, and some of it is about foreigners disrupting their harmony and forcing changes.
Imagine a made-for-TV movie called Japan 2100, with an entirely mixed-ethnicity cast living in an evolved and somewhat less prosperous Japanese culture. It would be interesting to see the Japanese reaction to that movie. |
Then the government must strive to create new mental maps among the Japanese population and promote the future rather than the past. Japanese people will inevitably see society change. It's happened in Australia, Canada and the UK big time. Immigrants from all across the globe have come together in these countries.
Why is Japan any different? |
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mitsui
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:51 am Post subject: |
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Xenophobia.
Japan is looking backward now, and doesn`t want to face the future.
This is a deeply intolerant country with pockets of tolerance.
Actually before the government would go along with immigration but at least a large minority is against it, or even a majority.
There was a poll where many responed that Japan didn`t need more foreign tourists.
So, in the future people will take a cut in their pensions, because there are not enough young to chip in.
Japan is only considered Western since its GDP is #3 in the world, and has had a large economy the last 100 years. |
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DLIguy
Joined: 29 Jun 2013
Posts: 167
Location: Being led around by the nose...by you-know-who!
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Japan is only considered Western since its GDP is #3 in the world... |
#3 only to those who believe an entire continent made up of 27 nations to be bigger than the likes of ONE INSULAR ASIAN NATION! Nearly as pathetic thinking that equates a consortium of nations forming an aircraft company and then crowing about how IT'S bigger than Boeing.
Whatever makes ya sleep better at night, I guess!  |
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Pitarou
Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:07 am Post subject: |
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The signal / noise ratio on this thread has just plummeted, so here are a few clarifications:
"Western" is sometimes used, very loosely, as a synonym for "economically developed liberal democracies". Japan is certainly developed, but its status as a liberal democracy is debatable. Since the end of the American occupation 1952, Japan has claimed to espouse Western liberal democratic values, but it never really put its heart in it, and it is clear that the LDP is now turning its back on those values. They are intent on writing a much more authoritarian constitution and, in terms of human rights, they now prefer to compare Japan with countries like South Korea and China rather than Germany or the United States. Personally, I prefer the term "soft police state"
When comparing levels of economic development, we usually look at per capita GDP rather than total GDP. National GDP is only really important in terms of national clout. In particular, a wealthy country can raise a more powerful army than a poor one. Still, since the topic has come up, the top four countries are:
1. The US (50 states)
2. China (22 provinces)
3. Japan
4. Germany
Or, if we treat the EU as a single entity:
1. The EU (28 states)
2. The US
3. China
4. Japan |
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steki47
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: BFE Inaka
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Vince wrote: |
| Imagine a made-for-TV movie called Japan 2100, with an entirely mixed-ethnicity cast living in an evolved and somewhat less prosperous Japanese culture. It would be interesting to see the Japanese reaction to that movie. |
Jeez, do you want to get us all deported? 
I can imagine such a movie really freaking out the Ojiisans and such. Probably a lot of the young'uns as well. |
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steki47
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: BFE Inaka
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Vince wrote: |
I wouldn't describe it as very tolerant. It's not about them welcoming us, but about bringing in native speakers on a short-term basis so that the Japanese can have safe access to foreigners and native English. |
What do you want from the Japanese? Not trying to be confrontational, serious question. I work, they pay me and let me live here. No physical attacks, no major complaints. |
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Solar Strength
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 557
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Pitarou wrote: |
The signal / noise ratio on this thread has just plummeted, so here are a few clarifications:
"Western" is sometimes used, very loosely, as a synonym for "economically developed liberal democracies". Japan is certainly developed, but its status as a liberal democracy is debatable. Since the end of the American occupation 1952, Japan has claimed to espouse Western liberal democratic values, but it never really put its heart in it, and it is clear that the LDP is now turning its back on those values. They are intent on writing a much more authoritarian constitution and, in terms of human rights, they now prefer to compare Japan with countries like South Korea and China rather than Germany or the United States. Personally, I prefer the term "soft police state"
When comparing levels of economic development, we usually look at per capita GDP rather than total GDP. National GDP is only really important in terms of national clout. In particular, a wealthy country can raise a more powerful army than a poor one. Still, since the topic has come up, the top four countries are:
1. The US (50 states)
2. China (22 provinces)
3. Japan
4. Germany
Or, if we treat the EU as a single entity:
1. The EU (28 states)
2. The US
3. China
4. Japan |
I wouldn't describe Japan as westernized at all. Modernized to a degree - the hardware is, e.g., trains, communication, etc. But they still think and act in non-westernized ways and have different values and ideas. The Japanese don't westernize.
It's going to be interesting to see what the Japanese people decide to do, or at least the people running the country, about the serious demographic problems facing the country. How do they expect to have pensions and a social welfare system in place and to support infrastructure if they don't have enough jobs and people working?
A bit off track here, but I'm always amazed to think that Japan was once a country defeated by the U.S. and also occupied by the U.S. and yet that didn't change a damn thing about Japan or the Japanese.
I mean, when Japan occupied Korea and Taiwan, for example, they changed the street signs to Japanese and regions of the countries were given Japanese names, and they even changed peoples' names to Japanese! The kids were even made to learn and speak Japanese.
The U.S. didn't do any of that when they defeated Japan. Anyone know why the U.S. took such a different approach than Japan did with its colonies? |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| I would imagine it had something to do with maintaining the fiction that the US was not creating an empire... |
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steki47
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: BFE Inaka
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Solar Strength wrote: |
| The U.S. didn't do any of that when they defeated Japan. Anyone know why the U.S. took such a different approach than Japan did with its colonies? |
You kind of answered your own question there. Japan is not Western, just modern. The culture of US/UK/etc gradually developed concepts of human rights, democracy, personal freedoms and so on. East Asian cultures generally do not prioritize such things.
Many Western powers walked away from colonialism for mainly moral reasons. They didn't lose their colonies dues to financial troubles and generally not because of violent resistance from those colonized; they decided that people deserved to govern themselves. Decisions based on morality rather than blunt force or lack thereof.
Throw in Christian notions of charity (and guilt, I may add) and one can see how the US will bomb a nation and then help them rebuild (except Iraq). Even justify said actions in the name of bringing democracy and "freedom" to those people.
In WWII, MacArthur ordered the American planes not to bomb Kyoto because it had cultural significance to the Japanese. Even Hitler, hardly a kind man, spared the Louvre as he respected the arts.
The Japanese did not show such respect in China and Korea. Heck, the Chinese wiped out much of their own traditional culture in the revolution.
Different cultures indeed. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| steki47 wrote: |
Many Western powers walked away from colonialism for mainly moral reasons. They didn't lose their colonies dues to financial troubles and generally not because of violent resistance from those colonized; they decided that people deserved to govern themselves. Decisions based on morality rather than blunt force or lack thereof.
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Oh, no. Do you really believe that? |
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