Job Discussion Forums

[johnslat]

A question: If you were in a hiring position and a resume/CV arrived in which the prospective employee claimed experience/expertise in "curriculum design" but listed no academic qualifications to support that claim, how would you react?

If I were in such a position (and if I had any intention of considering the applicant further)m I think I would ask him/her to submit a sample of such design.

How about you?

Regards,
John

[spiral78]

Hmm. Again, a fair question. In my case, it would depend on what we needed to hire this person to do. If a part of the job description were to design or help to design ESP courses in a higher-stakes situation, we'd actually want to see some grad-level quals that would lend official credence to the candidate, along with some examples of his/her work.

I've rarely been on a hiring committee which was specifically seeking someone to design courses; it's usually a job better done by people with both quals and some time inside the institution.

I was once asked to walk into a new situation and to design courses from day 1 - and it was horrifying. I'd never get myself into such a situation again.

Another issue is that course design of the kinds I'm talking about (where other teachers will use your material, and a high level of consistency is required across all classes) is best done in a team/collaborative context. However, even great course designers will be unsuccessful if chained to a partner or team which doesn't share (to a reasonable degree) his/her ideas regarding approaches, methods, and task types. You kinda need to know who you're working with for this to be successful in most cases....

[sixthchild]

As one of the older old generation, I feel that chasing after that extra piece of paper to stay competive is really a lose lose situation unless you suddendly have ideas of grandur and want to become a department head or suchlike. After 15 +years on the treadmill there has to be a limit on the number of qualies you need. I admit that staying in one place can be a mistake so my advice would be to broaden your cv by trying spells at primary, high school and university level , thats what I did, the only downside is that younger less experienced teacher tend to get the job because they are cheaper!

[nomad soul]

[spiral78]

Absolutely zero way I would want to vary my experience by moving from university to kiddie teaching! That is NOT where I'd like to go with my career. Ditto what nomadsoul said.

[sixthchild]

Hmm Nomad and spiral, marking papers,compiling tests and analysis reports, curriculm design and materials development, blah, blah, attending conferences,seminars, workshops,punching out articles telling people how to teach,blah blah, all those things that actually reduce your contact time in the classroom, so is this how you take your teaching to a new level? By staying out of the classroom!
cos you could go the way that most people do, start with the kiddies and then move on up!

[HLJHLJ]

In any professional or semi professional situation, I would be very wary of hiring someone who had no interest in CPD regardless of their age or what stage of their career they were at. In an education setting that would be doubly true. Why would anyone want to work as a teacher if they don't value education?

FWIW, as far as I know, I've never worked with anyone at university level who got there by starting with kiddies and working up. I can't even imagine how that career path would work, but I guess anything is possible in ESL.

[johnslat]

Dear HLJHLJ,


I started at university and worked my way down - to high school, junior high, elementary and Head Start. And then went back up again.

ESL/EFL can be full of ups and downs

Regards,
John

[HLJHLJ]

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I didn't meant that I had never worked with anyone who had previously taught kids. I meant someone who ended up teaching at uni with no additional qualifications solely on the basis of previous experience teaching children.

I certainly wouldn't say it never happens, but I would be surprised to find it was a common career path that 'most people' follow.

[sixthchild]

Its not totally uncommon, the majority of teachers I met at uni over a ten year period came up from high and even primary schools, some even at pre-school level, their rationale being try the job where very little qualification was needed to get started and as their experience and desire to cultivate their professional development grew go for CELTA and MAs, which is what they had when they arrived at uni level.
Most teachers who had graduated from unis from overseas had very little or no experience and of course their was obstacles with culture and language, but that can be another thread.

[HLJHLJ]

[nomad soul]

[spiral78]

[Chancellor]

The discussion has been pretty much all about people who started in TESL when they were younger people. Some of us, however, have just entered the TESL field after having had other careers.

[sixthchild]

Some fair points raised that are applicable to other countries, not necessarly Turkey, which has a different shall we say tilt on doing things. I am all in favour of gaining extra qualifications to progress esp when you are new to the industry and you need to compete for the higher paying positions. I had another line of work involving training and teaching but not in a formal setting and didn't start teaching till I was in my forties and was able to transfer a lot of the skills I gained as a result of that. that background of previous experience that involved interpersonal skills and being a decent communicator has stood me in good stead over the years, otherwise I probably would have quit long ago.
I got the impression from the OP that going for more quals is becoming more and more necessary in order for someone to just remain in teaching let alone move up the ladder, that doesn't sit well with me, why do I need an MA or a PHD to still do the same tasks?