Job Discussion Forums

[dragonpiwo]

Other than the bad pay the thing that narks me is just how hard they make it for foreigners. The visa people, the banks, that freakin' karta pobytu rigmarole.

I landed in Kuwait, got my residency visa 3 weeks later and then Gulf Bank came to our office and offered us Visa Cards and $60,000 loans immediately. In Poland as a fellow EU citizen from a country where Poles can claim benefits and buy property pretty easily, I have to get this karta nonsense, even though I have my substantial salary paid into the bank and have provided them with my passport copy. Furthermore, me and my fiancee are going the joint mortgage route at her request. The banks require very little from her but tonnes from me. She can get 0% deposit, I have to lay down 30%. The next thing I have to do is get a letter from my UK bank saying I don't owe money. What about Experian? Other banks have come up with all sorts of mumbo jumbo to complicate things and I've come to the conclusion that the average bank worker doesn't know what they are talking about. One even told me that my spanking new karta pobytu was the 'wrong one'. I live in Poland, have my salary paid there, work somewhere else and am non-tax resident.......it totally throws them.

Poland is civilised but backwards and or parochial.

[sparks]

I need to zameldowac sie soon. I cant wait for that. Last time I was there the lady told me that she didn't like the fact that I had a renter's contract for my apartment that is from 2007 and and "open" contract, specifically so we don't have to resign contracts every year. I explained this to her but she still didn't like the fact that it hadn't been updated recently. Marriage licenses, karty pobytu etc. all need to be refreshed regularly, apparently it they have an aversion to convenience or once-and-done solutions. Except for driving licenses of course.

[dragonpiwo]

Don't get me started on Polish roads, driving and traffic police. Only when you drive do you truly appreciate just how 'communistic' the place is. Stopped twice in 2 days for no reason last holiday. Stopped twice in more than 2 decades in the UK and once for good reason .

[dynow]

[sparks]

I used to always get pulled over and found the police to be quite nice. Once when I didn't have my license on me after getting stopped right down the street from where I live the cop let me run back to the apartment and get it. I've got away without tickets from all sorts of infractions just by being a good-natured foreigner Only in stupid Krakow did a I get one for not wearing a seat belt and in Warsaw for driving in the bus lane before making a right turn...

[delphian-domine]

I find it amusing that you're criticising Poland for a system that exists in most Schengen countries. Germany, Belgium, France, Spain, they all have exactly the same system.

[Richfilth]

Now now delph, let's not let facts get in the way of another ill-informed tirade that has nothing to do with the question being asked, yet again.

[dragonpiwo]

Rich, I think we've established that the offer was pants.

And Delph is simply wrong again. This 'I have a friend who' is no substitute for 'I actually went and did this'.

[delphian-domine]

[Richfilth]

I've been stopped plenty of times by the police, but it's always because I've been doing something wrong (no lights or seatbelt, speeding) or because my car looks suspicious (which it does; it's a 25 year old black BMW). Every time the police have been courteous, and they've never questioned my lack of dowod, and are more than happy to accept my UK driver's licence. I've never had to pay a bribe, and very often the "oh erm well yes er terribly sorry officer" routine is enough for them to wave me on without a ticket. I've never been asked, or needed, to pay a bribe in my 9 years of continuously living here.

As for the other stuff; I'm buying another apartment to compliment the one I already own, which I'm paying for with my poor, destitute teacher's wage. The bank are happy with my only 10% collateral, and my only needed my tax statement for the last year as proof of income. The paperwork is a doddle, the staff are friendly and I'm getting an outrageously good deal on both the property and the loan.

The thing is, to be taken seriously in these parts, you need to take part. If you aren't tax resident, or "zameldowanie", or showing any sort of inclination that you're part of Polish society, then Polish bureaucracy will make your life very difficult. And quite rightly so. If you want to live here but not pay a penny towards the services that support your life here, then I don't see any reason why Poland should be amenable towards your needs.

[dragonpiwo]

Plenty of Poles work with me and they have no probs whatsoever. Like me they pay no tax in Poland and like me they are privately insured re medical. So far I've provided notarized company letter stating permanent employment, the bank has my salary every month, I have a karta pobytu, next on the list is a letter from my UK bank stating I have no debt. WBK and PKO both declined as I earn my salary overseas like the Poles who live in England and I actually pay tax, or my company does where I am. I comply with all Polish tax laws regarding the 180 day law. When I've worked in Poland I've paid tax there and my son goes to a fee paying school. Millenium wanted the old photograph type karta pobytu. I've lived there on and off for years, have a Polish son, Polish ex-wife, soon to have another wife. Pray tell which part of Polish life I'm not immersed in. Getting a loan from a bank has naff all to do with paying ZUS or tax. Banks make decisions based on risk. Since I earn a tonne of money, I'm a lot less of a risk than 90% of the Poles who take out loans. I'll get there but it's a daft system. I also have a huge deposit. If Poles who work abroad couldn't get credit from Polish banks the market would be even weaker. The EU is meant to make people get equal treatment. Obviously not. Getting a mortgage from a broker is much easier but costlier. In fact Homebroker can get me a loan with one of my banks but I can't and that's plain dumb. Luckily Deutsche Bank seem to be much more forward thinking.

[dragonpiwo]

Oh and I have the Zameldowania too. Forgot about that. Perhaps your problem is with tax savvy people who live in a different income bracket. DB have assured me the mortgage is a goer, so I'll get there and hopefully before the summer so we can set the garden up for outside entertainment.

The police stopped me outside a cemetery in Konin the first time for no reason whatsoever. We were going to put flowers on a grave. I think they just wanted to leer at my missus. The second time was at 5.30 on the way to the airport a day later. No tickets, no nothing...just a pain in the arse. Our car is a new VW estate, so as normal as normal can be.

I love Delph's sandpit remarks. I live 100m from a pristine beach and our social life is mixed as the nurses are mostly Croatian/Serbs. We socialize outside with BBQs and there is pretty decent 'refreshment'. Speaking with authority from a position of ignorance is the stuff of fools. Both of my 'realities' are just fine. In fact, my Polish one is exceptional because I don't have to work there for peanuts. My African reality is fine where I am but awful for other TEFLers whom I constantly ward off from the dreadful jobs advertised recently. Soon I'll be in Poland for almost 6 months of the year....just under the 180 days. Semi-retired in my early 40's ain't bad.

[delphian-domine]

You know, your comments about not being tax resident are interesting. It's my understanding that under Polish tax law, it doesn't matter how many days you are in-country if it's classed as your principal residence. Having a bank account here, a mortgage, zameldowanie and so on - all of these things point at you having your main residence here.

Of course, the interpretation of these things may vary from tax office to tax office, but it might be a wise idea to get an opinion from the local Urzad Skarbowy before sailing so close to the wind.

[dragonpiwo]

I lived in Bydgoszcz for a year and the place is dominated by chain type schools and wages are lower than in a big city. There have been threads about how the work had dried up in Wroclaw. It's a fact that we earned the same in 97 as people do now in Poznan, which given the inflation means people are certainly worse off now in TEFL. This isn't a sudden thing as it's been in decline for eons.

And Delph, I've been to the accountant and 180 days is the rule. I have a residency permit in Africa and spend more time there than in Poland, so the Poles can keep their hands off my tax. As an aside, my company has just told all the expats that it will pay all our tax bills anyway. I've been exploring actually offering to pay tax in Poland as a means of making life easier. Look the rest of Europe is buying flats in Spain, Portugal, Tuscany etc and borrowing money to do so with ease from local banks. In Poland banks make it difficult for foreigners because their rules are inflexible. I was chatting to a very old friend about this last night. He is a former Director of WBK/AIB and has told me precisely that this was and is indeed the case when it comes to clients with different needs and circumstances. We'll get there but it's a real shag.

Nice reference to my thread but if you read it carefully, you'd see I said I'm OK.

Any job in Europe, let alone Poland, that offers less than about 1,200 GBP ie 6,000PLN is not a long-term living wage or rather not one that will give you a future. I understand some have money, rich wives, flats bought for them at marriage but for youngish, single men (as most are), Poland is a place to cut one's teeth.

[Richfilth]

reading back, all I've managed to glean from your ramblings is that you are not tax resident in Poland. In fact, on paper all you've really managed to do is get the locals pregnant and splash some cash around, but for business or personal purposes you are not resident in Poland, and are not a contributor. You're tax resident in Africa, not Poland, which is your choice and right, but it's not Poland's duty to bend over backwards to make it easy for you to spend your cash here.

Your examples of other countries don't help your argument. Spain, Portugal, Italy... look what happened to them thanks to the ease with which they dished out credit. Maybe you could have run the full gamut and suggested Poland follow Ireland too, or Greece.

And what does the future look like? More countries following Poland's example, not the other way round. Your friend may be an ex-director of WBK, but my friends are current directors within the financial sector, who report that every round of stress tests, and subsequent models and regulations within the European framework of banking is being conducted based on Polish banks' structures, since they survived the crisis so well. Look forward to far more regulation from the KNF and banks in future, not less.

What we can agree on is that wages are very low here, and it's not a place for an easy life. But very few places in Europe are.