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Toast
Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 428
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 Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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I don't particularly *care* if Chinese teachers are making more than me. They're definitely putting in more hours. Good for them. What I always wondered about is the "Woe is me....we make so much less than the foreigner!" attitude of a number who I know for a fact are clearing way more than me per annum.
Do they either simply not know what we make and are assuming it's so much higher, or only know our base pay and assume we're earning 12 months pay + their relatively large bonuses and allowances, when in actual fact for the most part most of us don't get any of this....or they're just hoping it'll garnish them some sympathy and we'll pay for dinner? haha
Curious. |
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muffintop
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 803
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| Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Toast wrote: |
I don't particularly *care* if Chinese teachers are making more than me. They're definitely putting in more hours. Good for them. What I always wondered about is the "Woe is me....we make so much less than the foreigner!" attitude of a number who I know for a fact are clearing way more than me per annum.
Do they either simply not know what we make and are assuming it's so much higher, or only know our base pay and assume we're earning 12 months pay + their relatively large bonuses and allowances, when in actual fact for the most part most of us don't get any of this....or they're just hoping it'll garnish them some sympathy and we'll pay for dinner? haha
Curious. |
This. 1000x this. |
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bobdaun
Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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Hm, I seem to have attracted some ire here from muffintop.
Dear Mr. / Mrs. / Ms. Top,
Please note, the careful caveats at the beginning to which you apparently took exception were intended to deflect a criticism which has been all too common on this forum recently, namely that anyone who says anything positive about China, or work conditions for teachers, or who questions any of the sweeping negative statements which are sometimes made, is immediately attacked and accused of being an apologist for the Chinese government. I didn't want this discussion, like many others in the past, to be derailed in this way, and so I took care to point out that what I was saying was not a blanket statement and could not be universally applied. This is simply a form of politeness, to make clear from the outset that I am not making a catch-all statement.
Apparently you felt that my further comments were directed at you - I don't know why, I didn't mention any names in my post, and I didn't reference any of your comments. However, as a long-time member here, I have often seen the argument that CTs, and either by implication or as a direct statement the majority of them, make a fortune out of hongbaos, under the table payments, or enforced extra tuition for their students. When I made my post I was not replying to any one person or even any one thread, but rather offering a counterbalance to an argument which I have seen made many times by many people on many threads over many years.
Finally:
| muffintop wrote: |
| bobdaun wrote: |
The obsessing about CTs pay, and the conviction that all of them are making boatloads of money under the table is perhaps symptomatic of the bunker mentality which can affect expats, wherever they are from and wherever in the world they happen to be living. Because for linguistic / cultural / whatever reasons they are isolated from the local society, there is a tendency to develop a kind of gut feeling that there is some vast conspiracy to cheat / put upon / exploit the outsiders, and that all the locals are party to it. |
I think perhaps you should keep your cracker jack psychobabble to yourself. You went pretty darn far off the reservation with that paragraph.
EDIT: FYI...I am about as far from the opposite of isolated from the local society as any foreigner can be here. Because of this, my rose tinted glasses were left on the bedside a few years ago. |
I would like to point out once again that none of my remarks were directed at you. I quite clearly stated that I was talking about "expats wherever they are from and wherever in the world they happen to be living". It should be abundantly clear that this statement applies equally well to Chinese people living in the US, or to Brazilians living in Dubai, or Swedes living in Mexico, as it does to westerners living in China.
Anybody who has spent any great length of time interacting with any expat community anywhere in the world will be well aware that some of them CAN (please note, once again my statement was very politely qualified so as not in any way to be taken as sweeping or definitive) be affected by an "us and them" mentality which leads to a suspicious, defensive outlook.
Once again, I'm not sure why you reacted with such hostility, or why you assumed that the post was directed at you personally when I went to such pains to make it abundantly clear that it was not intended to apply to any one group of people in any one country, much less any one individual
Neither am I sure why you feel that I "went pretty far off the reservation" with my statement - you neither clarify what you mean by that, nor introduce any evidence to support your assertion.
However, the level of hostility which you reflexively displayed leads me to feel that, although you evidently don't care for my "crackerjack psychobabble", it might perhaps be advisable for you to discuss your anger issues with a competent, qualified mental health expert.
Please be assured of my warm concern for your well-being.
Yours sincerely,
Bob Daun
Last edited by bobdaun on Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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muffintop
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 803
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| Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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I was being a......word that would get me banned.
Wanted to delete the post earlier but that's not my style. I'll take my lumps.
Sorry |
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Denim-Maniac
Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1238
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| Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Toast wrote: |
Do they either simply not know what we make and are assuming it's so much higher, or only know our base pay and assume we're earning 12 months pay + their relatively large bonuses and allowances, when in actual fact for the most part most of us don't get any of this....or they're just hoping it'll garnish them some sympathy and we'll pay for dinner? haha
Curious. |
My feeling is that they dont know. The smoke and mirrors regarding salary is so normal and commonplace they a) sometimes think it applies to everyones package and b) assume we understand what it means to earn a salary of XXX.
One of my students recently told me he saves around 10,000 a month. Then he told me he is applying for another job with a salary of 80,000 a year. 'Oh, are you taking a pay cut to be closer to your wife then?' I asked. He looked at me like I was nuts and said this new position would pay more! Obviously the math doesnt stack up, but he assumed that I understood the difference between advertised salary and take home. His job isnt in education ... but that approach and idea is widespread and isnt an attempt to fool people IMHO.
If you speak to the average salesman in England and ask how much he earns he might tell you 40K a year. Reality is he has a basic of 22k, pulls in 10k in commission and values his car, phone and laptop at 8k a year giving you the 40k total.
I think Chinese people tend to go the other way and tell you 22k a year with the assumption that you can guess they actually end up with a package worth 40k. (for example) |
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