Job Discussion Forums

[guest of Japan]

That someone or other is Samuel Johnson, according to my google search.

In my view patriotism is an inspiring motivation. It helps us to think beyond our own little worlds and to try to achieve something for the greater good. The perfect example would be from the JFK quote, "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." This quote helped to inspire citizen activism which would have far reaching effects.

Nationalism by through a 20th century historical view has far more negative characteristics. It is often seen as a feeling of superiority of one country. It helped to inspire quite a few wars. However, nationalism as seen in various European colonies is viewed quite positivily as in the cases of India, former French Indo-China, and many former African colonies.

There are of course dangers in both feelings. These can occur when leaders twist the public feeling into a force to be used in expansionism. See Italy in the 30's and Germany before and during WWI. Another danger occurs when nationalism or patriotism is infused with other values such as religion, ethnicity, or tribalism. These account for the majority of the wars ravaging the planet in the last 50 years, heck make that all of history.

People desire a sense of belonging. We catagorize ourself into groups even in childhood. Even those wise enough to classify themselves as a global citizen are contrasting themselves to those who identify with a more limited spectrum. We take pride in how we perceive ourselves to fit into the larger world. The truth is we are all insecure little creatures trying to make our way through life. We grab onto whatever we can to keep from drowning in a sea of insignificance. This is where all those isms come from.

[ntropy]

Patriotism is to nationalism as pride is to arrogance.

[Aramas]

Regarding the nomenclature of 'America', perhaps the nation that emerges from the ashes of the USA will have a more interesting name. Any suggestions?

How about 'Myopia'?

[once again]

"It would NOT mean that any of us have the ability to predict his decisions. Looking backward, this means that no one knew when Bush was "elected" that he was going to make so many costly mistakes."

Does this mean that if Bush is re-elected I can blame the appathetic for not voting and those that did vote because they had full knowledge of his policies and his actions?

And can someone tell me how to use the quote thing, I can never get it to work.

[johnslat]

Dear once again,
The way I do it is to highlight and copy the intended quote and then on my "Post a reply" page, I first hit the "Quote" bar on top, paste the quote I've copied and hit the "Quote" bar again at the end. Make sure you don't hit the "Quote" bar until you're postioned in the right place to put the quote. So, it should come out looking like this:

[Atlas]

[stillnosheep]

[stillnosheep]

Personally I'm with the writer of

[stillnosheep]

and of course

[James_T_Kirk]

[articulate_ink]

Patriotism versus nationalism -- I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I think my feelings about patriotism boil down to this: the US is its own religion and I'm an agnostic. As an American I have the luxury of dissent. I appreciate that. But I didn't stay in my hometown, or my home state, because they don't meet my needs, personally or professionally. Why should my country be any different? I'm patriotic in the sense that I want a sane, responsible government. I care what happens here. I want foreign visitors to leave with a positive impression, and I want immigrants to feel welcome. There's a lot that's good here, and not all of the people are idiots. That said, I want to live elsewhere.

I'm curious about something, for those of you who have chosen to live abroad. Expatriation is not necessarily a solution to either your own problems or your country's. I think it's subsituting one set of circumstances for different ones. (But I haven't done it yet. These are impressions I've gotten so far.) Did you guys want to live overseas for the sake of the experience itself, or because you wanted out, or some combination of the two?

[stillnosheep]

[johnslat]

Dear stillnosheep,
Or, considering your own suggestion and the way the Bush admistration is digging the USA deeper and deeper into debt, why not just:

"Broke"

People from here (the erstwhile USA) could then be called "Brokens" - or perhaps "Brokers" (but not "honest brokers" - vide the Israeli/Palestinian peace talks).
Regards,
John

[Truman]

[guest of Japan]