Job Discussion Forums

[Gummy Bear]

Thanks for the extra links Winston. They may come in handy one day. Does anyone else out there have the SAIC links for Shenyang, Hangzhou, or Xia Men? Thanks.

[Bud Powell]

[fat_chris]

[fat_chris]

[Gummy Bear]

Sorry I missed the point of the "Aviation English" comments ?????

[johntpartee]

Teaching positions in China that have vainglorious specialty titles, e.g., "Business English", "Cyber English", etc., are usually a joke. They are basic oral English.

[Non Sequitur]

[Bud Powell]

In public universities and colleges, business English for International Trade is a lot like what's taught in one-year general business certificate programs in America. It requires the student to be familiar with terms such as bill of lading, business meeting (and how one is conducted) various taxes and tariffs, VAT, etc..

In addition, the situational dialogues serve to indoctrinate the students into the culture of the business world. Dialogs center around the reason for the meeting as well as the content of the meeting. I had few problems and challenges teaching about cargo container ships and safety precautions, but when international and Chinese law was introduced, I had to do some serious homework because I am neither a Chinese importer or exporter nor a lawyer of any sort. I had to do extra homework after I couldn't answer a question in class.

If Aviation English is taught, I would expect the teacher to at least be very familiar with flying or better yet, a pilot. Terms such as aft, A.C, abort, acute, and affirm are probably within the ability of most native English speakers to define without study, but I wonder how many FTs could discuss terms such as AGNIS, AIRPROX, ALAR, DmE1 (acronyms) and angle of attack, auto-flight system, bus control unit, capture, crabbing, Direct Madras, and radial (as it it applies to aviation)
without having taken a course in airplane piloting himself.

Cambridge publishes such a book for studying Aviation English, but the course is by no means meant to be taught by someone with just a CELTA or any English degree. I turned down a job at a medical school teaching medical terminology. I could have gotten through the semantics of the vocabulary because I studied Latin in Catholic grammar and high school and I had a good grasp of Greek and Latin prefixes because i was an SAT coach for three summers, but I turned down the job because I had absolutely no confidence that I could apply the terms to medical or surgical procedure. I am not a doctor or a medical technician.

I can't imagine a Chinese school hiring a non-pilot or aviation engineer to teach anything dealing with piloting or aviation.

Wait. I can imagine it.

It isn't pretty.

[Non Sequitur]

[Bud Powell]

My point is that the specialist English cannot be taught as an alternative to ordinary English communication. After getting a reasonable 'handle' on conversational English then move to the specialist vocab of Tourism or whatever.


Agreed.

Now I'm gone.

[Non Sequitur]

One thing I do teach (as a cocktail mixer) that IS special to tourism, are the 20-odd international signs for travel-related services ie First Aid, Food Service, Departures etc.
Still need that basic grasp of general Oral English though.

[Zang_Lajiao]

I just state that I had to leave one certain company because they messed me around and had to go to the Foreign Expert's Bureau and Labour Bureau. Recruiters don't like FTs that actually know where to go if they get screwed over.

[SledgeCleaver]

It seems to me that recruiters are not so much a problem as are people who don't know how to navigate the process. I myself was probably part of this group, however I followed some basic advice from this board and from common sense, and the process became reasonably clear.

A recruiter should introduce you to a school and take some type of fee from the school if you are hired. You don't sign a contract with a recruiter, you don't take a job without speaking to the school directly (and hopefully some workers at that school), you don't send a recruiter your social security number and passport page and current address and driver's license numbers, etc. Send them a CV, maybe a copy of your diploma, maybe a letter of recommendation or something (you can withhold the number of the referee at first, and say "numbers/emails of referees available upon request from a potential employer"). If they don't set you up with schools at that point, they're probably not legit.

Personally, I didn't take a job from a recruiter but I worked with two different recruiters who more or less followed this model. It appeared to me that the recruiters were essentially trustworthy, ie. that they were doing a necessary job and expected to be paid for it. Both recruiters gave me contact info for schools, and in both cases I spoke to administrators and foreign teachers at those schools. The FTs confirmed that the job was legit enough, told you the pros and cons, and so on. Maybe I was just lucky. These recruiters were not recommended to me, I found them on seriousteachers.com quite at random. Maybe I was lucky, or maybe they're not 100% honest, but as far as I can tell they're okay.

Also, I think some people expect something for nothing. Being a recruiter no doubt takes work, yet some people are shocked that these people get paid somehow. Yes, they shouldn't be garnishing your salary, but... if they don't get a fee from somewhere, their service will cease to exist.