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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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 Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| ExpatLuke wrote: |
| Mushkilla wrote: |
| ExpatLuke wrote: |
| Is Baish an undesirable place to live? Why is the pay for teaching there much higher than the others? |
Baish is in the middle of nowhere, between Abha and Jazan (near the border of Yemen. It is a high risk area, that's why the salary is high. |
High risk in what sense? Am I in danger of having my home invaded and being beheaded? How many teachers die teaching in Baish each year? 
I'm more adventurous than most, so don't mind living in a high risk environment as long as it's reasonable. |
here is one example as to why it is considered a high risk area...if you are up on current events in the region you will soon realize that there are ongoing problems...
http://www.worldbulletin.net/headlines/140116/militants-attack-yemen-saudi-arabia-border-point |
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dustdevil
Joined: 27 Mar 2014
Posts: 38
Location: Retired in U.S.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:18 am Post subject: |
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For one thing, some people (especially men) tend to greatly exaggerate their earnings.
Not me. Why would I do that? Only one person here knows I am. I work with the Saudi military and live on their base about 250 miles from the Iraqi border in an area known for conservatism, to say the least. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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Your salary is large enough that you don't have to exaggerate it?  But I have seen quite a few posters over the years that I knew were topping things up considerably for public consumption. An ego thing I suppose. The anonymity of posting on the internets does allow for all sorts of dishonesty. Always a good idea to remember that detail... buyer beware... and all those other old platitudes.
VS |
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Makkah
Joined: 08 Oct 2014
Posts: 113
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| veiledsentiments wrote: |
But I have seen quite a few posters over the years that I knew were topping things up considerably for public consumption.
VS |
How did you know? |
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bonesleet
Joined: 21 Jun 2014
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:45 pm Post subject: How much is it worth to put up with corrupt rogues? |
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nomad sould wrote:
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Reread my previous post; you keep focusing on others' presumed lack of degrees as the only thing they have to offer instead of taking into account their pay likely reflects their other qualifications.
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nomad soul, you're not getting my point. The corruption I was surrounded by is what finally turned me off of the job. In a way I can understand why the Saudis paid as little as possible. It seemed that the more they gave their employees, the more they expected. My American co-workers who I lived on the same compound with (again no college degrees here and making more money than me) were behaving like madmen. There was plenty of listening to people at lunch constantly complain about how messed up everything was. You’d think that they would have been happy with the lavish villas on a secure compound, the company cars, and the tax free salaries that many English teachers at universities can only dream of getting.
The straw that finally broke the camel’s back for me was how co-workers would bribe the Saudi management so that they could be the primary on the car and steal it from people who had their own car like me. Having to wake up and give someone a ride to work an hour earlier who didn’t even work in the same building or have the same job was bad enough. Figuring out that the only reason I was doing it was because he had promised the Saudi managers (who were dishonestly using our company cars so we had to share with co-workers!) that he would invite them over to the compound, get them drunk, and provide them with girlfriends. Of course, all of these Saudi managers were married and practicing Muslims! There were some real petty backstabbers on that compound. And there really were some intense fights over the company cars. And the rogue who weaseled me out of the company car even got us in an accident on the way to work one day. He was a lousy, inattentive driver. My back still aches years later and I have to sometimes see a chiropractor. It wasn't until I got hurt that I was assigned another carmate to ride to work with.
This co-worker was actually one of the more likeable people I met on the compound. And because we rode back and forth to work together, I got to know him pretty well. He was a 24 year old US Army vet with a high school diploma who was bartending at Applebees before he came to Saudi. His “thing he had to offer” was that he had picked up the limbs of his fellow soldiers after they had been blown off their bodies in Afghanistan. But the people in management were former enlistedmen from the US military, so they respected veterans much more than they respected what they perceived to be college educated liberal elitists or dreaded English teachers. His other “thing he had to offer” was that he was greedy and a good negotiator, so he made sure he was going to be paid handsomely before getting on the plane to Saudi. He spent most of his time sitting in his office playing video games at work and complaining about our backstabbing coworkers and corrupt management. He chose to quit even though he was making more than twice what I was. And then the management tried to screw him out of his severance pay even though he had put in his 90 day notice. He had to threaten to contact the Chicago Tribune before they decided to pay it to him. Later I found out that he was working as a recruiter for the same company that tried to weasel him out of his money, putting other people into positions where said employer would no doubt try to screw them, too. The common theme here: these people were totally corrupt and selfish!
After he and I had talked ad nauseum about all of the backstabbing people we had to deal with on our compound, including people who would use their status as married employees to use the company car all weekend long (you know the ones who bribed the management by offering them wine and women), I told him one day how little money I was making. His response went something like this: “Oh my God! There’s no f***ing way I would be over here for that kind of money. Dude, I am so sorry! They do that to some people. They did it to so and so too . . . |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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The picture you painted is of a lousy work situation. Stressful, toxic (dysfunctional) work environments exist everywhere, including our home countries---nothing new there. People either 1) become part of the unethical nonsense and gossip; or 2) quietly try to ignore it but let out steam by complaining ad nauseam to others/outsiders about the workplace; or 3) take a stance by communicating to the offenders their refusal to get sucked into the drama; or 4) leave. Frankly, it's nearly impossible to change another person's behavior and mindset, and most of the time, it's not worth the effort to try.
That said, I'm not sure what kind of response you're hoping for here, aside from trying to get people to post their salaries or maybe even their cheesy negotiation tactics. (It's also ironic you've been asking others to disclose their salaries, yet you've not posted what you feel you're realistically worth.) Anyway, I suggest you figure out what your target pay should be and then go apply for positions with the top payers. |
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ExpatLuke
Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 744
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:40 am Post subject: |
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| So one more quick question in regards to making 72k salary. How much of that would go to savings? With housing and flights paid for, what kind of start up costs would I be looking at? Month to month can't be that expensive since everything fun is illegal from what I've heard... |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| ExpatLuke wrote: |
| So one more quick question in regards to making 72k salary. How much of that would go to savings? With housing and flights paid for, what kind of start up costs would I be looking at? Month to month can't be that expensive since everything fun is illegal from what I've heard... |
That's a question that no one can really answer... However, for starters, the cost of living in KSA is low. But as with any job, saving depends on the individual's debts/financial obligations, spending and investment habits, and motivation/commitment to save, as well as those unexpected expenses that might crop up. In KSA, some expats deal with their boredom by making regular trips to the UAE or Bahrain for R&R, which can be pricey. Others spend little as possible and squander their earnings. So really, that question can't be answered for your particular situation---responses will widely vary. Besides, you need to actually apply and interview for positions to see what salary you'd be offered. It may or may not be 72K.
Last edited by nomad soul on Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| It could get you a nice car and a regular supply if imported liquor. Or you could sign up with the 500 Club and save 90%. The choice is yours. |
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fledex
Joined: 05 Jun 2011
Posts: 342
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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Live nicely on 500 Euro a month, or just barely live on 500 SAR a month. It's your choice.
The city also makes a difference. 500 Riyal was fine in Najran. 500 Euro is comfortable in Jeddah.
If you go to Baish, 500 SAR is probably doable. I like the weather and mountains near there. Living not too far from the Yemen border has some pluses and some minuses. The Saudi/Yemen border and relationship is kind of like the US/Mexico border and relationship. Don't think too much about the people illegally crossing it or getting killed crossing it. Not that much of it has anything to do with terrorism. And do enjoy some of the added cultural diversity and food coming from the south. |
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ExpatLuke
Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 744
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks for all the info. I feel like I have a much better understanding of what I would be getting into. |
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bonesleet
Joined: 21 Jun 2014
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:08 pm Post subject: Yawn |
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nomad soul wrote:
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That said, I'm not sure what kind of response you're hoping for here, aside from trying to get people to post their salaries or maybe even their cheesy negotiation tactics.
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“cheesy negotiation tactics?” I don’t care if they’re “bacony,” so long as they work.
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| (It's also ironic you've been asking others to disclose their salaries, yet you've not posted what you feel you're realistically worth.) |
How could we mere mortals ever be “realistically worth” as much as the people who are entitled to over 4000 posts and are all-to-willing to pass judgment on others? Or to simply tell them to bugger off by telling them to go post on another website? Of course, I suppose it’s easier to take the moral highground than it is to simply admit that you don’t know the answers to my questions. That, habibi, might actually require some humility!
| Quote: |
| Anyway, I suggest you figure out what your target pay should be and then go apply for positions with the top payers. |
Kind of hard to do when companies and coworkers keep salary ranges private. They do that for a reason, you know. For the companies, they simply don’t want to have to pay us any more than they think they have to. So if the person next to us has similar qualifications and is making more, then they can conveniently blame us for not using good enough "cheesy negotiation tactics." For the co-workers, they’re already getting theirs, so who cares about you. Not that you’d ever contribute to a dysfunctional work environment . . . |
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bonesleet
Joined: 21 Jun 2014
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:21 pm Post subject: Why so little? |
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fledex wrote:
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| If you go to Baish, 500 SAR is probably doable. |
Not a math major, were you, fledex? I take it you mean 5000 Riyals? 500 SR would only be about $133. Even 5000 SR isn't much money. It's less than $16,000 a year. But as long as teachers accept salaries that low, then employers will keep offering them. I don't know about you, but I've spent about $150,000 on my post-secondary education, not to mention several years of my life. Does that mean that I should accept less than $1400 a month as my salary? Seems like a rip off to me, but it's your time and your life. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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"How could we mere mortals ever be “realistically worth” as much as the people who are entitled to over 4000 posts and are all-to-willing to pass judgment on others? Or to simply tell them to bugger off by telling them to go post on another website? Of course, I suppose it’s easier to take the moral high ground than it is to simply admit that you don’t know the answers to my questions. That, habibi, might actually require some humility!"
One of the best examples of the red herring fallacy (not to mention ad hominem) that I've seen in quite a while. 
Regards,
John |
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bonesleet
Joined: 21 Jun 2014
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:21 pm Post subject: Ooohh |
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| Ut oh, it's tag team time! Next you know Scotty will be jumping in dressed like the Ultimate Warior. Of course, you've never worked as a military contractor or for the oil industry, so you don't know either, do you?! |
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