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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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 Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| was only educated at a low level university in an unrelated subject. |
Not sure how you know this- I haven't seen the OP's CV.
We pay western wages, btw. And I didn't say the OP would qualify with his current degree + CELTA.
Anyway the larger point is that native speakers of English are not valued highly above non-native speakers in a great number of contexts in EFL, particularly on the European continent. It is by no means a given that a non-native speaker will be automatically paid less.
And it is entirely possible for a non-native speaker to reach C1 and C2 levels of spoken and written English. I know literally hundreds firsthand. |
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Deats
Joined: 02 Jan 2015
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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And my reply calling you nephew was also meant to be humorous. No offense taken or offered.
Sasha, escalation with other posters... well, there is one woman who claims to know everything about China... who it appears has never been there. She makes erroneous claims about things she has no experience with. It devalues the board.
Here, I have made points to try and advise the OP on the truth of his situation.
Spiral offers advice that is misleading. The OP wants a high paying job, then Spiral talks about universities that pay 15,000R a month. Then he decides to have a pop at me. At least I'm offering useful advise on this thread. Maybe Spiral should name the universities that are paying western salaries - i.e. 320,000R a month. Then that would be useful to us.
BTW, what 'Russian' would think it more financially lucrative to move to Minsk or another CIS country?
Anyway, I'll leave you guys to it. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Spiral offers advice that is misleading. The OP wants a high paying job, then Spiral talks about universities that pay 15,000R a month. Then he decides to have a pop at me. At least I'm offering useful advise on this thread. Maybe Spiral should name the universities that are paying western salaries - i.e. 320,000R a month. Then that would be useful to us. |
No, the universities don't pay that much (we sponsor teachers and provide supplemental pay on top of local pay), and I acknowledged a whole page back that the OP doesn't have the quals anyway. As noted earlier, I have hired EFL teachers myself at equal rates of pay for over a decade regardless of their native speaker status.
The point is that, contrary to your insistence, NNEST teachers are not automatically considered second class, nor are they necessarily paid less. Sorry if that news disrupts your world  |
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Deats
Joined: 02 Jan 2015
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| We pay western wages, btw. |
Erm, well a Western university professor earns on average $6,000 a month. But now you say you don't pay that. Huh, weird.
I have Russian friends in three different universities in St Petersburg and one in Vladivostock. All of them have MA in teaching and they all earn 15,000-20,000 roubles a month. That's the pay OP can expect, not that he has the relevant qualifications.
| Quote: |
| At entry level (the OP's situation) and at private language schools, there may be some differences in pay offered, but this is by no means endemic to the profession. |
In MOST positions around the world NNEST are paid less. You can argue all you want, but they are. If you can prove otherwise, then I would love to see your evidence. From every person I have spoken to who has taught abroad and from everything I have seen on the internet NEST are paid more than their local colleagues. It is a huge bone of contention for many NNEST.
The reason you probably hire an equal proportion of NNEST and NEST is because universities require both. If anything the use more NNEST's, so if you are hiring in equal proportion then that doesn't say much for NNEST's.
Russian unis pay NNEST and NEST basically nothing. It is one of the rare occasions where the pay is more or less equal. Although a NEST can expect a pittance more. Clearly your job is working in a very specific field, and doesn't reflect normal procedure. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| In MOST positions around the world NNEST are paid less. |
Evidently you're unaware that the vast majority of English language teachers in continental Europe are local NNESTs. In state schools k-12/equivalent, German teachers teach English, Dutch teachers teach English, French teachers teach English, and so on.
You are referring to basic private language centers solely, and the pay differential is not endemic everywhere even at this level. I understand that your world of EFL is made up of private language centres and Asian schools (which are not typical of the rest of the world) but neither of these is 'most' of the contexts in which a non-native speaker might teach English.
| Quote: |
| Erm, well a Western university professor earns on average $6,000 a month. But now you say you don't pay that. Huh, weird. |
Either I've been unclear or you have had trouble understanding what I wrote. We pay a supplement that brings pay for our teachers up to western standards. Otherwise they'd all be in the private sector. |
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Deats
Joined: 02 Jan 2015
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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You said you pay western salaries, now you are back pedalling. Whatever. Just change your story as and when you please.
And being English I am fully aware that language teachers in Europe are usually NNEST. This does not however compare who is paid more as there is no comparison to make, because NEST aren't usually employed! The only place you will find NEST in Western Europe (actually most of Europe) would be a language school, NOT a public school. The debate was who earns more, not who gets hired. You really should learn to read the posts before spouting off such nonsense.
In some western countries teachers of foreign languages are clearly very good. However, in England our French and German teachers are utterly diabolical. Presumably this is true for countries like France, Spain, Italy etc where the local population have poor English. This would suggest they could do with a few more NEST!
Finally, you obviously have a very weird way of looking at the world. Europe is relatively small compared to Asia, so basing your assumption on a handful of Western European countries is not very rational, when the largest continent (population wise) is Asia. Therefore when comparing the pay of NNEST to NEST working in the same country you will see that I am right.
Please, feel free to twist it whichever way you see fit and just write something unrelated to the discussion again to somehow back up your point. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:15 am Post subject: |
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| You said you pay western salaries, now you are back pedalling. Whatever. Just change your story as and when you please. |
Cannot think of yet another different way to say that they are paid western salaries.
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| In MOST positions around the world NNEST are paid less. |
Again, it's simply not the case 'around the world.' In your world, obviously it must be so. No argument on that.  |
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nnest
Joined: 18 Jun 2015
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:51 am Post subject: |
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| Deats wrote: |
| BTW, what 'Russian' would think it more financially lucrative to move to Minsk or another CIS country? |
I never said I was considering Minsk for the reasons of lucrativeness. I said it was really close to home and that it would be more pleasant to live there than in Moscow. There is an International House school in Minsk, and they offer accommodation, which isn't shared. Which I think everyone would agree is a good deal – again, compared to Moscow. Of course, I don't yet know what they offer in terms of pay. Another obvious problem is the economic – and social, in the face of the coming elections – instability, but overall the place (to my mind) is worth at least considering.
I realise that in terms of money staying in Vietnam would be better than teaching in Russia – it's a no-brainer, really. The thing is, I just can't live here anymore.
I can't work legally in Korea because of my passport. The same goes for China, as far as I know – you need to be a passport holder of one of the 'right' countries, and the list is rather short. Japan doesn't care about your nationality, but they're oversaturated with foreigners, including NESTs, so why would they hire a Russian guy to teach English? Taiwan has the same passport problem as do China and Korea, as far as I know. I'm not considering Thailand, because pay is a joke, and they made it all but impossible for most teachers to work there legally. I'm not considering Cambodia, because f*ck that place.
I could go on, but the point is, this process of elimination leaves me with the following options:
a) stay in VN (covered above);
b) go to Latin America (not my kind of place, and a ticket back home – which I would have to buy sooner or later – would be too expensive, I'm afraid);
c) try CIS: money probably sucks, so does the climate, lots of big and small annoyances, sure – but I have a lifetime of experience of avoiding and circumventing them; and hey, I don't need to worry about visas, work permits, or any of that nonsense! 
So, I'm certainly going back home. Whether I'm staying there for work – I haven't decided yet. Living in Japan would be a great experience. Teaching in China would be great in terms of money. But I really doubt that I (me, personally, with my cred, quals, and docs) could find work in either of those places. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| To nnest, best of luck with your plans to return home. Please do let us know how you get on. |
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GotoRussia
Joined: 02 Jan 2014
Posts: 182
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:02 am Post subject: |
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nnest your English ain't too shabby....let me hear you speak and I'll figure out if you're a real Russian or not 
I can detect accents like a dog's ear.
so who's "Going to Russia?" or should i say "going back" |
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Deats
Joined: 02 Jan 2015
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:31 am Post subject: |
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nnest - I have already told you, my wife is Russian and we are going back to China to work. She has worked there for 4 years before and has a new job there starting in September. There are many NNEST working in China. Either work in a less desirable city and they will hire you OR on the contract get them to employ you as a Russian teacher, but still teach English. It's simple. Schools know a way around the system.
Spiral - so they ARE paid $6,000. Very nice. Oh no, wait, you said they aren't... clearly you have a double personality as you contradict yourself in EVERY post, so I will just ignore each one of them from now on. |
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Gamajorba
Joined: 03 May 2015
Posts: 357
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:33 am Post subject: |
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One of my best friends in Moscow is a Moscovite and is extremely successful as an English teacher there. Having said that, he has perfect American English, and frequently masquerades as an American instead and gets away with it easily.
Besides, surely having a second language is always an advantage, especially for the lower levels! |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Dog's ear? Ultrasonic accents, eh? |
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GotoRussia
Joined: 02 Jan 2014
Posts: 182
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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sit droggie sit! good doggy..you have learned to obey your master well...
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GotoRussia
Joined: 02 Jan 2014
Posts: 182
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Gamajorba wrote: |
One of my best friends in Moscow is a Moscovite and is extremely successful as an English teacher there. Having said that, he has perfect American English, and frequently masquerades as an American instead and gets away with it easily.
Besides, surely having a second language is always an advantage, especially for the lower levels! |
how'd your friend get perfect American English? did he study in the USA?
he still probably has an accent unless he immigrated to an English speaking country before the age of 5.
even the Russians I met who had excellent English would use certain words out of context or say things a native never would sometimes.
good skill to have though, he can fool all the Russians. |
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