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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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 Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| mnruman wrote: |
| In terms of experience, am I right to assume private tutoring isnt taken into account? |
No. Employers don't consider private tutoring to be the same as classroom experience. Volunteer teaching isn't recognized either.
The better employers generally require official employment verification letters or employment certificates as proof of previous teaching experience. The job applicant is responsible for obtaining these letters from his/her past employers. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| mnruman wrote: |
| How about working for an umbrella company? |
What's an "umbrella company"? Assuming that it isn't a company manufacturing umbrellas... 
Just curious...
VS |
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Willoughby
Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| mnruman wrote: |
In terms of experience, am I right to assume private tutoring isnt taken into account?
How about working for an umbrella company? |
It counts if it's the same company that exclusively makes the Queen's umbrellas.  |
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Hatcher
Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 602
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| Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 12:35 am Post subject: |
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Almost anyone can work in Saudi.
There were men on our staff that told me they only worked with us because no one else would hire them.
One guy was homeless in the States. When he got fired, he returned to the streets of LA. |
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mnruman
Joined: 30 Mar 2015
Posts: 93
Location: Manchester, UK
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| mnruman wrote: |
| How about working for an umbrella company? |
What's an "umbrella company"? Assuming that it isn't a company manufacturing umbrellas...
Just curious...
VS |
I was referring to agency work, so you are hired by a 3rd party and work for a school. So on your CV you would put your employer as the agency not the school. |
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hash
Joined: 17 Dec 2014
Posts: 456
Location: Wadi Jinn
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Hatcher wrote: |
| Almost anyone can work in Saudi. There were men on our staff that told me they only worked with us because no one else would hire them. One guy was homeless in the States. When he got fired, he returned to the streets of LA. |
Keep in mind that in many academic fields (not so much in TESL), working in KSA is considered as the "Kiss of Death" for one's career, the idea being that you are working here because you couldn't get a job anyplace else....in other words, something's gone wrong with your career track.
Seeing "KSA" on a resume can quickly cause a recruiter to turn a jaundiced eye to the rest of your application in a flash.
At one time (and I think it's still true) if you were a TEFL teacher in KSA, it was very hard to get a new job in the Gulf emirates - they didn't want to have anything to do with you. " Don't even bother applying" was the word on the street. I recall seeing hordes of applicants returning from the TESOL-Arabia conventions in Dubai, Doha or wherever it was held, all depressed and despondent after interviews (or non-interviews). A few were hired, but it was very few despite sterling qualifications and experience.
Why this should be so involves a long and involved explanation which I won't go into here, but it is a consideration if you are looking for a job in the Gulf and you have a choice of employers.
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| We got one guy whose last job in the USA was cleaning aircraft at Chicago Airport. But we also had some very good and very talented teachers. I agree that KSA on your CV is an obstacle to getting a job outside Saudi. |
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Kimchidon
Joined: 25 Aug 2015
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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Hatcher,
How on earth could someone broke even afford to come to Saudi Arabia? It's rought I tell ya, rough!
Scot47,
Is that true, or are you just being...funny? |
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In the heat of the moment
Joined: 22 May 2015
Posts: 393
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't agree teaching in the KSA is any worse on your CV than in Ukraine or Uzbekistan. Employers who have experience in this region will understand your ability to work here is a positive. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| The story about the guy who cleaned planes at Chicago is true. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:39 am Post subject: |
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It is also true that many employers in the rest of the Gulf will avoid hiring someone from KSA. The work rules tend to be casual in Saudi... show up to teach your classes, try to stay sober for the short period... and leave. Most employers in the rest of the Gulf - especially university level - require you to be in the building and available for the hours the institution is open each day - these day it tends to be 40 hours per week. More formal dress tends to be required.
Too many teachers in the past were unable to adjust the the new system.
VS |
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myohmy
Joined: 31 Jul 2013
Posts: 119
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:10 am Post subject: |
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| veiledsentiments wrote: |
It is also true that many employers in the rest of the Gulf will avoid hiring someone from KSA. The work rules tend to be casual in Saudi... show up to teach your classes, try to stay sober for the short period... and leave. Most employers in the rest of the Gulf - especially university level - require you to be in the building and available for the hours the institution is open each day - these day it tends to be 40 hours per week. More formal dress tends to be required.
Too many teachers in the past were unable to adjust the the new system.
VS |
Except for the first sentence, which I don't have the knowledge to dispute, the rest of this is absolute nonsense and comes from one who has never set foot in KSA. Furthermore, I had no problem getting a job with a comparable salary after working in Saudi, and my three years experience there was all I had to show on my CV. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| myohmy wrote: |
| Except for the first sentence, which I don't have the knowledge to dispute, |
You should have stopped right there... while you were still accurate. And there is the obvious detail that one need never set foot in Saudi to have this knowledge.
Nowhere did I say "all" and you are but one person reporting her individual experience. I can even name a few more who managed. I am basing my comment on my 15 years in the area listening to actual employers discuss hiring in other countries in the Gulf... and about 20 years reading the experiences of hundreds of teachers in Saudi on this board.
VS |
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myohmy
Joined: 31 Jul 2013
Posts: 119
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 3:08 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The work rules tend to be casual in Saudi... show up to teach your classes, try to stay sober for the short period... and leave. Most employers in the rest of the Gulf - especially university level - require you to be in the building and available for the hours the institution is open each day - these day it tends to be 40 hours per week. More formal dress tends to be required. |
This is an inaccurate and sweeping generalization that does not apply to most universities in KSA. |
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desertdawg
Joined: 14 Jun 2010
Posts: 206
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:00 am Post subject: |
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Have to agree with myohmy here. I have had several employers in Saudi. I was always required to work office hours and wear formal dress.
Don't know about KSA experience being unattractive. I got work in three other Gulf countries after a long stint there. A friend went from Saudi to two very good jobs firstly in Oman and then in Bahrain.
It could be argued that Gulf experience is not valued when applying for jobs outside the region for example in Europe. |
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