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General Disarray
Joined: 23 Jun 2010
Posts: 58
Location: Kent
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 Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| psychedelicacy wrote: |
| My MSc isn't actually a science, but it does have a substantial quantitative and statistical portion. There's just a lot to take in for someone who doesn't have a numerical/statistical background. Sorry I can't be more specific. |
My degree is in Pure Mathematics so I'm hoping I will cope!!! Although given that I've been out of practice for well over 6 years I'm having to re-teach myself a lot but it's kind of enjoyable!!
I should have got my masters after my bachelors, but I was not even 21 when I finished (August baby) and wanted to see what the "real world" had to offer me. Although graduating at the peak time of the recession should have told me to stay in education.
Im a bit worried about finding people to give me a letter of motivation but a reply from the professor at Prague said it's not the most important part of the application. I definitely think I will be a better student now compared to if I was 21 though. |
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braveheart263
Joined: 11 Nov 2015
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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Everyone, thankyou for putting ESL teaching into perspective. Your responses do pose couple of more questions for me. Several of you mention that I should look at the experience as "working in a different culture" as oppose to "teach and travel". Maybe, its me, but this sounds more like its just another way to say the same thing. I know that I will have a job with real responsibilites but I also want to travel to different countries that I may not have the opportunity to do otherwise.
What type of additional training are you referring to?...Is it a DELTA, a Masters degree in Education in the USA or a Licensed Teacher. Right now, I can not say that I want to further my education to take on the additional costs of gaining a Masters in Education.
Lastly, for those ESL teachers who decide that they want to move back to their home country, are you suggesting that employers view that time apent ESL-teaching as useless. If so, that is very unfortunate...And why would some chose the ESL path if it is not going to enhance their resume. For me, this is a really big gamble as I am not young college graduate. I am sure that your can understand that every decision I make is really crucial at this point in my life....
But thanks everyone, I have a lot of thinking to do...this is a bigger decision and endeavor than what I expected. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:20 am Post subject: |
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| Living and working in another culture is not universally valued. My experiences in the Anglosphere is that anything "FOREIGN" is viewed with suspicion or outright horror. I suspect that it is even worse on the other side of the Pond than here in blighted Ukania ! |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| Lastly, for those ESL teachers who decide that they want to move back to their home country, are you suggesting that employers view that time apent ESL-teaching as useless. If so, that is very unfortunate...And why would some chose the ESL path if it is not going to enhance their resume. |
Yes, many (possibly even most) employers in Anglophone countries are disinterested in EFL experience. It's logical - unless you go into language teaching back home, in what way would teaching your native language to foreigners make you a better employee in an unrelated field? You might be able to sell someone on the notion of ability to work with people from other cultures or something, but it's not universally valued by any means.
Many of us chose the EFL (English as a Foreign Language - outside of Anglophone countries) as a long-term career.
In my own case, I couldn't care less what it would do for my US resume - I've no reason to ever work in the US again. |
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simon44
Joined: 15 Mar 2013
Posts: 118
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:44 am Post subject: |
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Why try to get into another industry now? Is there another which offers;
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I manage to teach whilst holding down another job at the same time.
So ticking the boxes...
1. Exotic places to live in! Yes. Beautiful beaches, palm trees, exotic women 
2. The chance to work with engaged, intellectually curious young people!! Not really, unless you are talking about the bar girls (You very hansum man!!)
3. A life free from the hassles of the modern day, industrialised cities!!! Yes, definitely
4. An escape from the drudgery of the commute!!!! Yes
5. A job where you receive a great salary, competitive benefits and meet people from all over the world!!!!! Well generally Yes! The salary is good (about $4,000 per month and I meet people from all over the world.
6. World-class teacher development programs!!!!!! Er, no
7. A workplace with a sense of adventure and community!!!!!!! Well it is definitely different and a great adventure (for me).
8. A great opportunity to learn a new language!!!!!!!! Definitely yes - and I have.
9. A fantastic way to live overseas and get paid to travel the world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Live overseas ==> Yes. travel the world ==> yes to some extent.
So what is this wonderful job?
Aside from teaching, I have spent the past 14 years living on the tourist island of Phuket, Thailand. I self-build small resorts, then manage them to profitability and then (usually) sell them to foreigners who want an easy lifestyle with an (almost) guaranteed income.
Right now, I live at the latest little resort project whilst I'm waiting to sell it, but have the time to teach during the day. My staff manage the resort, I chat to guests in the evening and I pocket all the profit, plus my teaching income.
Sorry if this sounds like an advert
I could also teach online as well, if so wished.
My plans after selling this little resort are to return to the UK to study for a PGCE, then return to south-east Asia to build a new resort and teach again. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:19 am Post subject: |
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| braveheart263 wrote: |
Several of you mention that I should look at the experience as "working in a different culture" as oppose to "teach and travel". Maybe, its me, but this sounds more like its just another way to say the same thing. I know that I will have a job with real responsibilites but I also want to travel to different countries that I may not have the opportunity to do otherwise.
What type of additional training are you referring to?...Is it a DELTA, a Masters degree in Education in the USA or a Licensed Teacher. Right now, I can not say that I want to further my education to take on the additional costs of gaining a Masters in Education. |
In your situation, working in a different culture means that you look into where you can work as an experienced marketing executive or consultant in China, Hong Kong, Singapore, the UAE, Qatar, etc. In other words, you stay in marketing but do so in another country and still have the ability to travel. Capitalize on those 15 years of marketing experience.
By contrast, as a complete TEFL newbie in a language school, expect a mediocre salary and benefits (if any) and the stress of working as a lowly teacher under a foreign employer that won't likely have your best interest in mind. Plus, be ready to teach children if East and South East Asia are still on the backburner.
In order to get those lucrative, direct-hire teaching opportunities in the Gulf (your main target region), you'd need a TEFL-related MA and a couple of years of experience; the Delta won't be enough. (The sketchiest Saudi companies might be interested in you, but you don't want to touch that.) To teach in a k-12/international school, a teaching license (relevant to your degree major) and a couple of years of US public school experience will net you a nice position in the UAE and Qatar. But at age 49, this may not be the route you'd want to take, especially since some countries set their retirement age at around 58.
| and braveheart263 wrote: |
| Lastly, for those ESL teachers who decide that they want to move back to their home country, are you suggesting that employers view that time apent ESL-teaching as useless. If so, that is very unfortunate...And why would some chose the ESL path if it is not going to enhance their resume. For me, this is a really big gamble as I am not young college graduate. I am sure that your can understand that every decision I make is really crucial at this point in my life. |
The better teaching jobs in the US require an MA in TESOL or equivalent plus experience, which some posters on this thread have (myself included). Regardless, don't assume mainstream US employers will be thrilled about the fact that you have overseas experience (unless that experience was in marketing on an international level).
Be realistic about TEFL. |
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rtm
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:45 am Post subject: |
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| braveheart263 wrote: |
| Several of you mention that I should look at the experience as "working in a different culture" as oppose to "teach and travel". Maybe, its me, but this sounds more like its just another way to say the same thing. I know that I will have a job with real responsibilites but I also want to travel to different countries that I may not have the opportunity to do otherwise. |
By "teach and travel", I had in mind what a lot of people seem to (naively) think of EFL teaching -- that you travel to a country, immediately get a job, work for a few weeks to a couple months, then move on to another country and do the same thing again. That used to be possible a couple decades ago, but not any more. You say you "also want to travel to different countries that [you] may not have the opportunity to do otherwise." Yes, if you work abroad, you'll be able to travel to the country you are working in. You may be able to travel to other countries during holiday periods when classes are not in session, but that's not much different from working back home (except you might be geographically closer to other countries you want to visit). If you make EFL teaching a long-term career, you can see a fair number of countries, but you're really not able to save money unless you stay in one place for at least a year or two.
| Quote: |
| What type of additional training are you referring to?...Is it a DELTA, a Masters degree in Education in the USA or a Licensed Teacher. Right now, I can not say that I want to further my education to take on the additional costs of gaining a Masters in Education. |
It depends on how you want to further your career. You can get an entry-level position in many countries without any qualifications at all. To progress to teaching at an international school, you'll need home-country teacher licensure (and a couple years of home-country teaching experience). To teach at a university abroad or in the US, you'll often need an MA in TESOL. To be a Director of Studies at a language center, you'll often need a DELTA.
| Quote: |
| Lastly, for those ESL teachers who decide that they want to move back to their home country, are you suggesting that employers view that time apent ESL-teaching as useless. If so, that is very unfortunate... |
It really depends on what you do when you go 'home'. For teaching international students at a university in the US, an MA in TESOL is required along with at least a few years of experience teaching abroad (preferably at a university). ESL jobs in US (K-12) schools won't value experience abroad because most ESL students in US schools aren't from foreign countries, they were born in the US.
For other jobs, just experience living abroad isn't really an employable skill itself. Language skills can be useful, but there are usually enough qualified native speakers of those languages who have very high English proficiency.
| Quote: |
| And why would some chose the ESL path if it is not going to enhance their resume. |
A lot of young EFL teachers just want to get out of their hometown and see the world. For some, there are no opportunities at home, and teaching abroad sounds like a fun adventure. Others follow a foreign-born spouse to their home country. Not everyone is thinking about their future resume when they start out. Some never intend to return to their home country.
Personally, I started out almost 20 years ago when I was 22. I had an undergrad degree in applied linguistics, for which there wasn't a clear trajectory in the US, and I wanted to experience life in another country. I later got additional graduate degrees, and am now back in the US, teaching. For that career path, my experience teaching abroad was vital, but I didn't have a long-term plan when I started. |
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markcmc
Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 262
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:36 am Post subject: |
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| scot47 wrote: |
| Mr Cresswell Hyphen Turner of the Daily Telegraph is not a reliable source. |
Yes – And he's been recycling this content for years. |
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Hod
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 1613
Location: Home
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| simon44 wrote: |
Aside from teaching, I have spent the past 14 years living on the tourist island of Phuket, Thailand. I self-build small resorts, then manage them to profitability and then (usually) sell them to foreigners who want an easy lifestyle with an (almost) guaranteed income.
Right now, I live at the latest little resort project whilst I'm waiting to sell it, but have the time to teach during the day. My staff manage the resort, I chat to guests in the evening and I pocket all the profit, plus my teaching income.
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Interesting stuff, Simon.
It sounds like you have some cash behind you, business acumen and patience to work with Thais, a rare skill. Why not stick to that job? |
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kona
Joined: 17 Sep 2011
Posts: 188
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:56 am Post subject: |
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I may not be out of teaching indefinitely, but I ended up deciding to return home after three years in Korea to try a stab at getting into the craft beer industry. It hasn't been easy, but, to be fair, I've only been back for the last month and a half. I got a job bar tending at a local brewery part time, but that's about it at the moment.
I'd say, most people that teach English overseas, especially in Asia, do it as a gap year or two. A lot of people end up traveling afterwards, and then head home to find work back home. Some of the people I've known are smart, and they use whatever free time from their job to either up their qualifications in the field, develop skills or qualifications in other fields, or, save up as much money as possible and then start a business (I had one friend save up 10g to start a hostel in Indonesia (and failed, but tried nonetheless and did it at the age of 27), and another friend who started a food truck business in Austin, Texas). I had a bunch of friends that I played ultimate frisbee with, and I know three of them that now work for ultimate frisbee clothing/gear companies.
If you're fresh out of college, or still in your 20s, I say go for it. It carries some risk; if you already have a profession back home that you want to get back to, it'll more than likely be a set back, but if you come over, and A. don't get screwed by your first employer, and B. apply yourself in your free time, whether that be learning the local language, making a career into a hobby, etc., a trip to Asia to do some EFL can be an awesome way to save some money, pursue some new hobbies/skills/education, and live somewhere different than your home country (which, imho, is worth it in and of itself). |
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simon44
Joined: 15 Mar 2013
Posts: 118
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| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
It sounds like you have some cash behind you, business acumen and patience to work with Thais, a rare skill. Why not stick to that job?
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Well, I enjoy building the little resorts and getting them profitable. But after the business reaches that stage, I have time on my hands to go and teach/manage a school for a year or so, then return and do it all again.
I actually enjoy teaching |
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Knedliki
Joined: 08 May 2015
Posts: 160
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| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:08 am Post subject: |
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If you have in demand skills or are a bit of an entrepreneur then going back home shouldn't be too bad.
The problems will be if you're older and don't have any skills that employers want, plus you're competing with fresh graduates for every job. |
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cartago
Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 283
Location: Iraq
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| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| I started out teaching EFL at language centers, mostly to adults with some kids classes. Eventually I ended up making more money at k-12 schools but I really hated the job. Recently I got a job working for a TV station in Iraqi Kurdistan where I'd been working at a school. The pay is about the same but the hours are longer and not as many holidays. I'm so burnt out on teaching and I think I'll enjoy this job a lot more. I already started training and it was a lot more interesting. I have 2 weeks to go to finish up the teaching and I really dread going in and putting up with the kids. It's just not for me. |
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bdbarnett1
Joined: 27 Apr 2003
Posts: 178
Location: Phnom Penh, Cambodia
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| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| cartago wrote: |
| I started out teaching EFL at language centers, mostly to adults with some kids classes. Eventually I ended up making more money at k-12 schools but I really hated the job. Recently I got a job working for a TV station in Iraqi Kurdistan where I'd been working at a school. The pay is about the same but the hours are longer and not as many holidays. I'm so burnt out on teaching and I think I'll enjoy this job a lot more. I already started training and it was a lot more interesting. I have 2 weeks to go to finish up the teaching and I really dread going in and putting up with the kids. It's just not for me. |
Interesting. What will you be doing in your new job? |
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Teacher in Rome
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 1286
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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I think the burnout comments are interesting. I've been teaching on and off for what seems like a very long time. I enjoy what I do and I like being able to make a difference and see my students progress. But like any job it can get stale.
The great thing about teaching is that you can combine it with other side projects, and you can dip in and out. I've done a number of things either instead of, or in parallel with teaching, and I've found that teaching skills are really useful. For example, I've worked in ELT publishing, blogged for a national newspaper (where I often interviewed people), and done specialist and teacher training. All these things have also fed into my teaching. I have to say though, that I planned none of this - it happened at the right time and the right place.
So I guess that what I'm also saying is that teaching can open a lot of doors - if you're also up for challenges. You shouldn't underestimate the skills you develop as a teacher - even though (as some people have rightly said) - employers are sometimes reluctant to see the benefit of them. But you should also be ready to spot opportunities and make them work for you. Insist on going part-time / freelance; hold out for the interesting adult students (rather than getting locked into YL if that's not your bag); and make interesting connections. |
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