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bograt
Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 331
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 Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:31 am Post subject: |
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I know to which one I'd give a job, or
I know to which candidate I'd offer a position.
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You know that making a fuss about people finishing sentences with prepositions in informal speech went out of fashion around the 1970s don't you?
Anyway to answer your question. If his primary motivation is drinking beer and lying on a beach he's likely to devote less time to other things in life - e.g. lesson planning - in order to devote more time to drinking beer and lying on a beach. Most teaching jobs have fewer contact hours than the amount of time you're expected to work. People with poor motivation generally take advantage of this. |
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adventious
Joined: 23 Nov 2015
Posts: 237
Location: In the wide
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| bograt wrote: |
| You know that making a fuss about people finishing sentences with prepositions in informal speech went out of fashion around the 1970s don't you? |
What fuss? And a little before the '70s, actually...
https://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/churchill.html
| Quote: |
| Most teaching jobs have fewer contact hours than the amount of time you're expected to work. |
And Lord knows I've witnessed the near extinction of that latitude.
If the illustration is a literal beach bum, sure, I'll agree...
But that wasn't the hypothetical, not exactly.
I dunno...I hope others chime in about the character of employers asserting expectations by way of framing motivation... |
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joe30
Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 112
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| bograt wrote: |
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| Lifestyle should be your FIRST consideration when taking a job or deciding a career path. If beaches and beer are what make you happy, that's a totally acceptable reason to get into ESL teaching. If you love teaching, that's also an acceptable reason to do ESL. But neither reason is better than the other, and the second guy isn't a 'better person' than the first. |
I know which one I'd give a job to. |
That's not really relevant though. As an employer, of course you want someone who will work every hour of the day, will accept peanuts (or nothing!) in terms of pay, and will obey every command given. That'd be your dream, just like my dream would be $50,000 a month with 1 contact hour a week. Are you as an employer 'wrong because you won't meet those demands? Of course not, and neither is the employee wrong for choosing other reasons to teach other than a love of teaching.
Most people go into most jobs to improve their lifestyle OUTSIDE WORK, not because they dreamed of going into that profession all their lives. If in the view of an employee, going into ESL will improve his life (whether that be inside OR outside the workplace) then he should be free to do so without judgement or mockery from others.
You want to live near a beach, and there's a job on offer next to a beach? Go for it, that's as good of a reason as any other.
FYI - the 'I love teaching' dudes motivation comes from his love of teaching. The 'I love the beach and drinking beer' dudes motivation comes from the fact that if he does a decent job, he'll be kept in employment, which allows him to still sit on the beach in his spare time. If he did an unsatisfactory job he'll get fired and won't be able to relax on the beach anymore. Both guys have plenty of motivation. |
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bograt
Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 331
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| FYI - the 'I love teaching' dudes motivation comes from his love of teaching. The 'I love the beach and drinking beer' dudes motivation comes from the fact that if he does a decent job, he'll be kept in employment, which allows him to still sit on the beach in his spare time. If he did an unsatisfactory job he'll get fired and won't be able to relax on the beach anymore. Both guys have plenty of motivation. |
Generally the beach bum will do enough to avoid getting fired, while the I love teaching dude will spend time and effort trying to make the lessons engaging and effective for the students. Additionally the beach bum will show the other teachers by his general attitude that he doesn't care about the job, which will negatively affect team activities and be bad for morale in the staff room. He will poke fun at teachers who discuss grammar or lessons seriously or spend time on worksheets and he'll say things like 'TEFL's not rocket science.'
Sure there might be exceptions to this, just as there might be guys with spider webs tattooed across their faces that are actually great at customer service and we shouldn't judge them blah blah blah. However back in the real world everyone judges everyone else all the time so there's no point stacking the odds further against yourself. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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| bograt wrote: |
| Generally the beach bum will do enough to avoid getting fired, while the I love teaching dude will spend time and effort trying to make the lessons engaging and effective for the students. Additionally the beach bum will show the other teachers by his general attitude that he doesn't care about the job, which will negatively affect team activities and be bad for morale in the staff room. He will poke fun at teachers who discuss grammar or lessons seriously or spend time on worksheets and he'll say things like 'TEFL's not rocket science.' |
I'm suddenly reminded of the following popular fable: http://read.gov/aesop/052.html
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bograt
Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 331
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joe30
Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 112
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:36 am Post subject: |
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| bograt wrote: |
Additionally the beach bum will show the other teachers by his general attitude that he doesn't care about the job, which will negatively affect team activities and be bad for morale in the staff room. He will poke fun at teachers who discuss grammar or lessons seriously or spend time on worksheets and he'll say things like 'TEFL's not rocket science.'
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If this sort of standard is enough 'not to get fired' at your company, you've got far bigger problems than questioning the motivation of those you're hiring.
What I mean is - if you're getting into teaching, you should try do a good job, make good lessons, and leave students/parents happy. There's a limit to this i.e. you should leave enough time to yourself to enjoy your life outside work, and shouldn't be working yourself into an early grave for your employer.
But what someone likes to do in that free time they have is up to them. If someone got into ESL teaching because they want to spend their free time on the beach, then good for them. So long as the teaching is of an acceptable quality, what exactly is the problem? If it's not of an acceptable quality, your recourse is clear - fire the teacher and get a new one.
It's just nieve to think that people shouldn't consider lifestyle reasons when getting into teaching. If you're offering a job in Phuket, your applicants will be in part attracted by the avaliability of a beautiful beach and good nightlife. If you're offering a job in the Mid-East paying $6,000 a month, of course your applicants will be attracted by the money on offer. That's just real life - people will consider their lifestyles and how the job can benefit this. |
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bograt
Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 331
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:46 am Post subject: |
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Additionally the beach bum will show the other teachers by his general attitude that he doesn't care about the job, which will negatively affect team activities and be bad for morale in the staff room. He will poke fun at teachers who discuss grammar or lessons seriously or spend time on worksheets and he'll say things like 'TEFL's not rocket science.'
If this sort of standard is enough 'not to get fired' at your company, you've got far bigger problems than questioning the motivation of those you're hiring. |
Really? Taking the piss out of a few teachers and saying things like 'TEFL isn't rocket science' should be enough to get someone fired? Is that what you're saying? If so, it doesn't sound like you've been in TEFL very long.
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| It's just nieve to think that people shouldn't consider lifestyle reasons when getting into teaching. |
I think you're right - most people do consider this first when they get into TEFL. Though I certainly wouldn't recommend telling a future employer that. However most people who stay in TEFL long term do so because they like the job. The ones that don't usually end up like the guy I described above. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:14 am Post subject: |
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| bograt wrote: |
| joe30 wrote: |
| It's just nieve to think that people shouldn't consider lifestyle reasons when getting into teaching. |
However most people who stay in TEFL long term do so because they like the job. |
Ditot that. Which is why joe30, a complete newbie and "millennial," isn't in a position to speak to the experiences of current EFL teachers and the possibility of retirement --- some sooner than later.
It would be great to hear from current TEFLers who have been "beach-bumming" for the past 5-10 or so years --- how they see themselves maintaining that lifestyle for years to come in light of declining salaries, increased competition from highly-qualified native and non-native speakers, tightened immigration laws, higher employer expectations, global political and economic instability, natural disasters, yada yada. |
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joe30
Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 112
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
It would be great to hear from current TEFLers who have been "beach-bumming" for the past 5-10 or so years --- how they see themselves maintaining that lifestyle for years to come in light of declining salaries, increased competition from highly-qualified native and non-native speakers, tightened immigration laws, higher employer expectations, global political and economic instability, natural disasters, yada yada. |
Who the hell said anything about not getting qualifications and remaining in a shit entry level job forever?
I'm saying - think about the type of lifestyle you want. Then try and choose a career path that allows you to live as close to that lifestyle as possible (within reason...of course you can't expect to live like a rockstar unless you're in an extremely well paid job).
So, let's say someones dream lifestyle is to travel the world, experience new cultures, and have long holidays on the beach. Teaching abroad fits that lifestyle plan pretty good, in a way that say...a corporate office job in America would not. But if someones dream lifestyle was big city living, being in a position of power and respect, with 2 cars on the driveway and (shortish) luxury holidays...then he'd be well advised to stay in a corporate job back home.
Pick the lifestyle you want, then look at jobs to support it. Doing it the other way round is arse about face and will lead to a miserable life where your goals and dreams remain unfulfilled.
I did ESL for a bit, and have now 'gone home' to get some higher qualifications. But I'm doing the qualifications for a better lifestyle (i.e. more money means a better quality of life) not for altruistic reasons. And there's nothing wrong with that. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| joe30 wrote: |
Who the hell said anything about not getting qualifications and remaining in a shit entry level job forever?
I'm saying - think about the type of lifestyle you want. Then try and choose a career path that allows you to live as close to that lifestyle as possible (within reason...of course you can't expect to live like a rockstar unless you're in an extremely well paid job).
So, let's say someones dream lifestyle is to travel the world, experience new cultures, and have long holidays on the beach. Teaching abroad fits that lifestyle plan pretty good, in a way that say...a corporate office job in America would not. But if someones dream lifestyle was big city living, being in a position of power and respect, with 2 cars on the driveway and (shortish) luxury holidays...then he'd be well advised to stay in a corporate job back home.
Pick the lifestyle you want, then look at jobs to support it. Doing it the other way round is arse about face and will lead to a miserable life where your goals and dreams remain unfulfilled.
I did ESL for a bit, and have now 'gone home' to get some higher qualifications. But I'm doing the qualifications for a better lifestyle (i.e. more money means a better quality of life) not for altruistic reasons. And there's nothing wrong with that. |
You continue to avoid the subject of this thread, which is about retirement and not about one's current motivation for entering the TEFL market. Understandably, for millennials like yourself, the concept of retirement is far from being on the radar. So it's unclear why you continue to be defensive.
Your formula is "if I do this, I will get this." You tend to view TEFL and living abroad as one dimensional --- painted with one broad brush. However, TEFL/teaching abroad is multifaceted with external forces and conditions that can (and do) impact the choices we make. None of us, including you, are immune from declining salaries, increased competition from highly-qualified native and non-native speakers, tightened immigration laws, higher employer expectations, global political and economic instability, threats of insurgency or actual acts of terrorism, conflict between two countries, natural disasters, etc. In other words, the reality is "If I do this, what if X, Y, or Z happens..." (I'm reminded of the SWOT matrix "threats" element.)
Case in point, many teachers in the ME found themselves jobless after having to leave the region due to the Arab Spring uprisings five years ago. Ditto for those teachers who no longer had jobs because of tsunamis, floods, and earthquakes. Until just a few years ago, most of the governments in the GCC accepted distance/online degrees. That quickly put the kibosh on the plans of many TEFLers who had hoped to capitalize on their newly-minted but online MA TESOL. Omanization, Saudization, Emiratisation... are being pushed in the GCC for the purpose of replacing expats with qualified nationals. And that's not just limited to the Mid East. Some governments are looking at limiting the number of years expats can work in country. Generally, TEFL salaries aren't as strong as they were years ago and benefits not as rich --- wages are not keeping up with inflation. In some parts of the world, it's not uncommon for teachers to bear the costs for expensive housing, utilities, etc. Some teachers have taken on private tutoring in their free time in order to supplement their income. Then there's Brexit and the uncertainty and anxiety it's causing quite a few teachers who work in the EU.
Doom-n-gloom? No... reality. By the way, although you've voiced your distaste for any and everything about the UK, think twice if you're considering renouncing your citizenship. |
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RedLightning
Joined: 08 Aug 2015
Posts: 137
Location: United States
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| Easy money |
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sheikh radlinrol
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 1222
Location: Spain
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:45 am Post subject: |
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| scot47 wrote: |
Retired now and in my dotage. I should be writing my memoirs- but who would read them ? |
I sometimes feel as if I HAVE read them.  |
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Hod
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 1613
Location: Home
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| RedLightning wrote: |
| Easy money |
It's easy and the least stressful job on the planet, but the money bit doesn't fit. |
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danshengou
Joined: 17 Feb 2016
Posts: 434
Location: A bizarre overcrowded hole
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Hod wrote: |
| RedLightning wrote: |
| Easy money |
It's easy and the least stressful job on the planet, but the money bit doesn't fit. |
Work not, want not. |
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