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Black_Beer_Man
Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 453
Location: Yokohama
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 Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| Maitoshi wrote: |
| It's time for a little math. If one were to work at Starbucks in their home country, would the equivalent of 1000 yen an hour sound about right? Multiply by 40 hours per week, if you are lucky enough to get that many, and you've got a grand total of 40,000 per week, or roughly 160,000 a month. How is this even remotely better than 220,000 per month? Here we are only comparing money, too, as if there is no difference in the work. |
I don't know how much Starbucks workers get per hour, but I am sure it's more than the equivalent of 1000 yen per hour.
I recently read an article which said that it's actually quite competitive to get a job at Starbucks. The company pays well because it believes that if it pays its workers well, they can attract the best talent and get more productivity out of them. My guess is that they must pay $15 / hour or more. I read that Costco pays more than minimum wage too.
At $15 / hour, a 40 hour work week would get you $2400 a month, the same salary as an ALT job in Japan. And you don't have to play "the Genki Giajin" as you make the lattes. |
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Black_Beer_Man
Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 453
Location: Yokohama
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| Maitoshi wrote: |
| It's time for a little math. If one were to work at Starbucks in their home country, would the equivalent of 1000 yen an hour sound about right? Multiply by 40 hours per week, if you are lucky enough to get that many, and you've got a grand total of 40,000 per week, or roughly 160,000 a month. How is this even remotely better than 220,000 per month? Here we are only comparing money, too, as if there is no difference in the work. |
I don't know how much Starbucks workers get per hour, but I am sure it's more than the equivalent of 1000 yen per hour.
I recently read an article which said that it's actually quite competitive to get a job at Starbucks. The company pays well because it believes that if it pays its workers well, they can attract the best talent and get more productivity out of them. My guess is that they must pay $15 / hour or more. I read that Costco pays more than minimum wage too.
At $15 / hour, a 40 hour work week would get you $2400 a month, the same salary as an ALT job in Japan. And you don't have to play "the Genki Gaijin" as you make the lattes. |
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danshengou
Joined: 17 Feb 2016
Posts: 434
Location: A bizarre overcrowded hole
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| Black_Beer_Man wrote: |
I don't know how much Starbucks workers get per hour, but I am sure it's more than the equivalent of 1000 yen per hour.
I recently read an article which said that it's actually quite competitive to get a job at Starbucks. The company pays well because it believes that if it pays its workers well, they can attract the best talent and get more productivity out of them. My guess is that they must pay $15 / hour or more. I read that Costco pays more than minimum wage too.
At $15 / hour, a 40 hour work week would get you $2400 a month, the same salary as an ALT job in Japan. And you don't have to play "the Genki Gaijin" as you make the lattes. |
Could not have said it any better. Unless you "love" Japan or are desperate for a "travel opportunity of a life time", for that kind of crap money just stay home. |
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Black_Beer_Man
Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 453
Location: Yokohama
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| danshengou wrote: |
| Black_Beer_Man wrote: |
I don't know how much Starbucks workers get per hour, but I am sure it's more than the equivalent of 1000 yen per hour.
I recently read an article which said that it's actually quite competitive to get a job at Starbucks. The company pays well because it believes that if it pays its workers well, they can attract the best talent and get more productivity out of them. My guess is that they must pay $15 / hour or more. I read that Costco pays more than minimum wage too.
At $15 / hour, a 40 hour work week would get you $2400 a month, the same salary as an ALT job in Japan. And you don't have to play "the Genki Gaijin" as you make the lattes. |
Could not have said it any better. Unless you "love" Japan or are desperate for a "travel opportunity of a life time", for that kind of crap money just stay home. |
Well, yeah, that's the point being made here. There's no more money in ESL in Japan. So, this job is just for people who want to see Japan. Don't expect to save much money. |
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Maitoshi
Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 718
Location: 何処でも
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:21 am Post subject: |
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| Not arguing with this point. In fact, when it becomes difficult to decide if a Starbucks gig is better (my point being that it's probably overstated) it really isn't worth considering dispatch ALTing or eikaiwa as a career. That being said, many have used it as a START to a very fulfilling career. |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| TokyoLiz wrote: |
About salaries - if you're a career teacher working at a decent institution and earning between ¥300,000 and ¥400,000/month, you're paying about 10-15% in insurance and taxes. That leaves a lot of discretionary income.
If you live in the suburbs like we do, rent is a fraction of Tokyo, and food is cheap at discount supermarkets. |
TokyoLiz is one of the few posters in this thread who gets it. Good jobs--paying ¥300,000 to ¥500,000/month salary plus partial payment of insurance premiums--exist. She has one of these jobs. I have one of these jobs. Other posters (many of whom have given up posting here) have these jobs too. A number of us have posted in the past on how to get these jobs. Moreover, as she notes too, rents outside the downtown areas of Tokyo/Osaka/Kobe are actually very reasonable. Finally, while eating out does cost a lot in Japan, buying fresh produce and cooking at home is usually no more expensive here than in the US.
The only thing accurately depicted in this thread is how poorly the non-JET entry-level positions (eikaiwa, dispatch ALT, etc.) now pay. (Though again, EFL salaries are either stagnant or dropping throughout the world--i.e., it's not just a Japan thing.) I personally would no longer recommend coming to Japan for, say, a dispatch ALT position--the low salaries (coupled with the potential for placement in an abusive workplace) would make this a no go for me--except if I had other reasons for coming (say, an undying love of kanji or a rich Japanese fiancée...or just a desire to live in Japan for a year regardless of the money...). That said, isn't this true for entry-level positions in just about any industry in any country? I mean, none of us would recommend to a foreign national that they move to the States just to work a Starbucks gig...right? |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Maitoshi wrote: |
| Not arguing with this point. In fact, when it becomes difficult to decide if a Starbucks gig is better (my point being that it's probably overstated) it really isn't worth considering dispatch ALTing or eikaiwa as a career. That being said, many have used it as a START to a very fulfilling career. |
The bit in bold is the key to me. Unless you're independently wealthy or have non-monetary reasons for being here, the plan should be to get out of dispatch ALTing or eikaiwa work ASAP. And you know, even today (in these more challenging times), people continue to find ways to move on to bigger and better things. To do this, though, it takes improved qualifications, connections and (probably most importantly) Japanese language ability. |
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Maitoshi
Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 718
Location: 何処でも
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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I figured the all-caps-signaling-shouting emphasized the key bit nicely, but bold works well, too. Stylistic choices and all  |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Maitoshi wrote: |
| I figured the all-caps-signaling-shouting emphasized the key bit nicely, but bold works well, too. Stylistic choices and all |
I also considered italicizing and underlining the now bolded (and capitalized) text as well, but then thought that this might be a bit much....  |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:07 am Post subject: |
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Taikibansei says
| Quote: |
| Good jobs--paying ¥300,000 to ¥500,000/month salary plus partial payment of insurance premiums--exist. She has one of these jobs. I have one of these jobs. Other posters (many of whom have given up posting here) have these jobs too. |
In the last 12 years, all the people I have worked with, and my classmates from grad studies, and friends at other schools, have had these jobs.
At some institutions and placement agencies, I participated in hiring. There were many applicants, but we struggled to find suitable candidates. By suitable, I mean qualified or certificated, experienced, Japanese-speaking and ready to teach.
You may have noticed that Taikibansei's post increased the salary range by ¥100,000. I work in secondary education as a subject teacher. If you're a program head, or head teacher, or work in tertiary schools, you're likely to have a salary at the higher end of the range, right?
| Quote: |
| The only thing accurately depicted in this thread is how poorly the non-JET entry-level positions (eikaiwa, dispatch ALT, etc.) now pay. |
Yes, entry-level jobs pay peanuts here. I would never recommend starting here in eikaiwa or dispatch ALT unless a hopeful is intending to, and more importantly, has a plan and funds, to bootstrap their way into education jobs, or another industry here, or is a spouse or family member of a breadwinner. |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:21 am Post subject: |
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| TokyoLiz wrote: |
At some institutions and placement agencies, I participated in hiring. There were many applicants, but we struggled to find suitable candidates. By suitable, I mean qualified or certificated, experienced, Japanese-speaking and ready to teach. |
Same experience here, particularly the part in bold.
| TokyoLiz wrote: |
You may have noticed that Taikibansei's post increased the salary range by ¥100,000. I work in secondary education as a subject teacher. If you're a program head, or head teacher, or work in tertiary schools, you're likely to have a salary at the higher end of the range, right? |
Yes to this too. Indeed, I've posted a link to the average salaries for faculty in regular (i.e., non-contract) university positions--the average salary for a 50-year-old 準教授 works out to just over 500,000 yen per month. |
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Maitoshi
Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 718
Location: 何処でも
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:19 am Post subject: |
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| And when you factor in housing and family allowances, never mind research budgets, the actual amounts received are higher. Add some additional koma on your research day, and things can be quite good, financially speaking. |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:17 am Post subject: |
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Maitoshi, my uni friends tell me about the benefits of their jobs. The jobs are of value beyond salary.
Some high schools too have teacher budgets, or they accommodate teachers as they continue professional development. I've been covered for conferences and teacher association memberships. Some friends work at schools that allow teachers to go part time while they do teacher education or grad school.
Anyway, the salary range and the kinds of benefits you get in secondary and tertiary schools are pretty good. |
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Maitoshi
Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 718
Location: 何処でも
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:28 am Post subject: |
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| More valuable than these is the tremendous amount of satisfaction involved in teaching and working alongside like-minded individuals. I've yet to meet any good teachers who got into teaching for the money. |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:36 am Post subject: |
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TokyoLiz and Maitoshi, yes, teaching can bring you job satisfaction and even decent-to-good salaries...but can you get free coffee and "one free food item per shift from the pastry or ready-to-eat case"?
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