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joe30
Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 112
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 Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 1:33 am Post subject: |
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| Hod wrote: |
If you do the above then kudos to you. It’s just that 99% of people who don’t care much about healthcare abroad won’t care about having the funds to rent long term (and not just pay a deposit) back in the UK. |
Well it's not saving specifically for having to travel back to the UK and rent a house. It's more retirement savings (which everyone will need if they plan to retire abroad) that in the event of serious medical problems could be dipped into for a UK address. Those who travel around with nothing more than a few hundred quid to their name are one missed paycheck away from disaster.
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| Where else have you lived if I may ask? I’ll 100% recommend living overseas to anyone, but there’ll be pros and cons in any country. Maybe ask yourself why you dislike the UK so much. Those sort of reasons don’t tend to vanish just because you fly somewhere else. |
There's many things I dislike about the UK (I've got a thread in the HK forum where I go into this in more detail). If I had to pick the top 2 dislikes though, it'd be the lack of easy dating opportunities and the weather. Both of those problems are solved by moving out. Yes, they completely vanished.
I've lived in Thailand, did a few months in Vietnam and Cambodia too.
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| I will include Thailand and Vietnam if that’s OK along with Malaysia and Singapore. Where do you live in the UK? There are hundreds of thousands in the UK. Go and ask how many want to leave. |
Hundreds of thousands of people in a country of 60+ million isn't a large amount though. You're also only looking at one side of the coin. How many Brits are there in SEA?
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| Great. Get insured in your new country, and you’ll be better off whatever happens. You did say above that your back-up plan was the NHS, but now you’re getting there. |
It's not neccesarily a bad thing to be insured although I'd stop short of outright 'recommending' it. The main thing to remember is the NHS is free to all British citizens, you don't have to remain in-country to take advantage of it. True, you won't have the option of the NHS for sudden events (i.e. a heart attack, or getting hit by a car) but medical care in many countries is fairly cheap and you can 'self insure' in a way by making sure you're saving some money each money. For stuff like cancer treatments, dialysis treatments etc you are fully covered by the NHS and could return home any time for such treatment.
The tax rate in most countries is a lot lower than the UK, so if you figure out what you're saving in taxes each year it doesn't neccesarily cost 'more' abroad, even if you do have to shell out big bucks one time for that emergency surgery after a heart attack. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 6:02 am Post subject: |
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joe30's understanding of how housing is provided in the UK is a bit shaky. Going to knock on the doors of "Social Services" is unlikely to pay off. they may house you as a homeless person but not in a place you would want. If they judge that you are not in "priority need" they will direct you to a nearby park bench. The other label that is commonly applied is "intentionally homeless". Abandoning your house in Pattaya or wherever to return to the UK would be to have rendered yourself "intentionally homeless".
back to the planning stage. Think things through - and use some hard info form the real world. |
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joe30
Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 112
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 6:35 am Post subject: |
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| scot47 wrote: |
joe30's understanding of how housing is provided in the UK is a bit shaky. Going to knock on the doors of "Social Services" is unlikely to pay off. they may house you as a homeless person but not in a place you would want. If they judge that you are not in "priority need" they will direct you to a nearby park bench. The other label that is commonly applied is "intentionally homeless". Abandoning your house in Pattaya or wherever to return to the UK would be to have rendered yourself "intentionally homeless".
back to the planning stage. Think things through - and use some hard info form the real world. |
Huh? I made it real clear that I'd advise anyone to save money while abroad so if something like an emergency trip back home comes up then you don't have to throw yourself on the mercy of social services.
| joe30 wrote: |
What link is there to getting free NHS treatment and getting housed by social services? I wouldn't advise anyone not to make savings while they're abroad - savings such that if you need to return to the UK for medical treatment you can afford a rental deposit in a decent area, to live life in the UK without hardship etc. |
Suffice to say however, I hope no one who did have the plan to return to the UK would be stupid enough to tell social services that they've only returned home for the NHS and that they have a home elsewhere but want the state to house them in the UK too. |
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joe30
Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 112
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| Hod wrote: |
Let's imagine an expat who's been out of the UK for fifteen years and develops a serious illness. Assuming he can travel, he'll have to abandon his adopted homeland and whoever he knows there and head back to the UK to throw himself at the mercy of the NHS without a GP or an address. He'll get treatment, but he's ended up in the grimmest scenario akin to that of a refugee. After hospital, he'll need social services to house him somewhere. A rock bottom I'd not wish on anyone.
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This was the original mention of social services. |
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bograt
Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 331
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Housing in London is a real problem. Come to my neck of the woods and I will use my "wasta" (influence) to get you housed ! that was in jest. We suffer from depopulation and have a surplus of houses - both private and public sector ! |
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Hod
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 1613
Location: Home
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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No one's been nasty or demeaning to you, joe30, which is nice to see. I just saw your PGCE/Hong Kong threads, and you've thought the teaching plan through, and I'll admit being jealous when you end up in HK, even though it can get chilly there 
But if you're aiming to get qualified, you should then be aiming for the better jobs which mean you wouldn't need the NHS Domesday scenario. |
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joe30
Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 112
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Hod wrote: |
No one's been nasty or demeaning to you, joe30, which is nice to see. I just saw your PGCE/Hong Kong threads, and you've thought the teaching plan through, and I'll admit being jealous when you end up in HK, even though it can get chilly there
But if you're aiming to get qualified, you should then be aiming for the better jobs which mean you wouldn't need the NHS Domesday scenario. |
Yes I'd certainly hope to be provided by medical insurance when I go out to work personally.
Just saying...even if you're not in that position...there's still substantial reasons to be away from the UK. Health care isn't the be all and end all, quality of life when healthy is extremely important too. In that regard, I find the UK in serious need of improvement. |
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Hod
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 1613
Location: Home
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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Fine, but the UK works out for some if us. I lived for a long time in Thailand, Malaysia and Germany, and liked all of them a lot and still do. All countries have good and bad. You deal with or overcome each country's disadvantages as best you can or you'll never be happy.
I love Thailand and Malaysia, but they're corrupt third world countries. Not much I can do about that hence I'll only be a tourist there ever again despite having a Malaysian wife.
Germany is also great, but I don't like the people. No way of making that sound good nor will 80 million change their way of thinking to mine.
You've mentioned the UK's lack of dating opportunities, high tax and bad weather. I'm married and self employed which help with two of those. I can live with the weather as I spend six weeks over winter in Thailand and Malaysia. I'm not loaded, I just get on with it and don't bemoan my lot in life. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| I find Hod's Germanophobia odd. I am not UKphobic but have learned that you have to accept what you cannot change. Is that not in that AA prayer ? |
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Teacher in Rome
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 1286
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Yes I'd certainly hope to be provided by medical insurance when I go out to work personally. |
Joe - I worked in HK many years ago and the health care was excellent. I got mine through the company I worked for and I was bowled over by the fact that the insurance would cover both Western and Chinese-style care. I remember getting a course of acupuncture for sth and it working like a treat.
On the other hand, an old HK hand (who I haven't seen on here for a while unfortunately) said that the pollution over the border is causing a lot of cancer cases in HK. You might want to get regular screening while you're there.
Re your point about taxes... I live in Italy where I can only dream of the UK tax rate! True, it's higher than HK's 10%, but still reasonable compared to what I pay here. |
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Hod
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 1613
Location: Home
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| scot47 wrote: |
| I find Hod's Germanophobia odd. I am not UKphobic but have learned that you have to accept what you cannot change. Is that not in that AA prayer ? |
Germanophobia implies hatred so is the wrong word. Find it odd by all means, but we've been here before.
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=86606
I made the effort to learn German to an advanced level. I had German acquaintances, lucky me, but I found it 100 times easier to get on with Spanish, Italians, Malaysians and even Moroccans and made friends with people of these nationalities who are still friends. Maybe the issue's with me, fine. I left.
I could've carried on living the great expat li(f)e in Berlin with my UK, Spanish, Italian, Malaysian and Moroccan friends in Germany, but I'd rather just be able to go into my local pub and talk about cricket or something interesting as opposed to where I'm from, Brexit or whether or not I like Germany, because I really don't care.
But I still like Gerrmany a lot, and if I was offered a job there, I'd think about it.
But that's Germany, a foreign country with cultural differences. If I felt the same way about the UK, I'd be slightly concerned about having a massive great chip on my shoulder.
I still have parents, siblings and real friends in the UK. Compared to them, my German acquaintances don't get a look in. If that's Germanophobia, bring it on. |
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joe30
Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 112
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Hod wrote: |
Fine, but the UK works out for some if us. I lived for a long time in Thailand, Malaysia and Germany, and liked all of them a lot and still do. All countries have good and bad. You deal with or overcome each country's disadvantages as best you can or you'll never be happy.
I love Thailand and Malaysia, but they're corrupt third world countries. Not much I can do about that hence I'll only be a tourist there ever again despite having a Malaysian wife.
Germany is also great, but I don't like the people. No way of making that sound good nor will 80 million change their way of thinking to mine.
You've mentioned the UK's lack of dating opportunities, high tax and bad weather. I'm married and self employed which help with two of those. I can live with the weather as I spend six weeks over winter in Thailand and Malaysia. I'm not loaded, I just get on with it and don't bemoan my lot in life. |
I'll never be happy in the UK, of that I have no doubt. But given I've found happiness in other places, it is the UK, it's not me just looking for stuff to whine about. Would much rather live in a 'corrupt third world country' than the UK. The government official in the 'corrupt' country might want a $10 bribe before doing his job. In the UK he'll just charge you $50, give a receipt an it'll be perfectly legal. Personally, I'd rather pay $10.
It's a fact the UK has piss poor dating opportunities for guys compared to the Asian countries. Anyone seriously challenging this just cannot have ever been to Asia. Taxation in the UK is a ridiculous 40% on everything over 21,000 pounds (assuming student loan). In Asia? 20% absolute max. Cost of living? There's a reason they call it 'rip off Britain'.
What possible incentive could there be for a guy in his 20s or 30s to stay in the UK if he didn't have to? They're making a country full of serfs to repay the massive debt built up by prior generations, which is why benefits and public spending has been slashed while taxation has remained the same. House prices at crazy levels such that the average working man will be living with his family until his 30s just to save for a deposit and then will be paying a stupidly large amount of his income each month just to put a roof over his head.
The only thing any TEFL'er in the UK should be doing is getting qualified with an MA TEFL or PGCE then ditching this horrible island for good. I won't be convinced there's anything worth staying for here...over 2 decades of misery in this grey country has fully set my views in stone on this matter. |
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joe30
Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 112
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Teacher in Rome wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Yes I'd certainly hope to be provided by medical insurance when I go out to work personally. |
Joe - I worked in HK many years ago and the health care was excellent. I got mine through the company I worked for and I was bowled over by the fact that the insurance would cover both Western and Chinese-style care. I remember getting a course of acupuncture for sth and it working like a treat.
On the other hand, an old HK hand (who I haven't seen on here for a while unfortunately) said that the pollution over the border is causing a lot of cancer cases in HK. You might want to get regular screening while you're there.
Re your point about taxes... I live in Italy where I can only dream of the UK tax rate! True, it's higher than HK's 10%, but still reasonable compared to what I pay here. |
HK is probably a bit of a dream at this moment for me since I don't have much experience (currently getting high level quals now but there's still the experience problem). But it's a long term goal, and one I'm willing to work towards. It certainly beats staying in the UK.
If Italy's tax rate is higher than the UK's, that only goes to show Italy is even more unreasonable in this regard, not that the UK's taxation is anywhere near OK. With that said, on the basis of the much nicer Italian weather, Italian food, and beautiful Italian women, I'd rather be in Italy. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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Topic Drift seems to have taken us a long way from the OP's theme of Kidney Dialysis.
Glueck auf ! |
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