Job Discussion Forums

[GambateBingBangBOOM]

[azarashi sushi]

Hi Jack Tripper,

Just to clarify things a little... I was basically responding the OP's lines about:

[guest of Japan]

I'm not desperate to leave either, but I am looking forward to it.

[AgentMulderUK]

Yep, it's a fine country in many ways, but in summary, it's nothing particularly special. Certainly not enough to warrant a very long term stay.

And the "differences" from Japan and the West, in my opinion, are severely over-exaggerated and just don't seem to apply anymore.
I mean, who wrote those books ?(Japan Culture Shock ,etc) Have they actually visited Japan in the last 100 years?

I really think that some people who come here must of spent all of their previous life in a shoe box or something;
"Oh look, they take their shoes off before they go into a house"
"Oh,they eat RAW fish here"
"Oh, look, their music sounds all different"

Yeah.And?

Sorry to sound cynical, people. But there it is.

[Smooth Operator]

By all means come to Japan and check it out. However, it would be foolish to make long term plans to live in a country one has never been to (did you say that? Sorry if you have been here). Anyway, the longest visas you can get are three years, and the job security is not great ,so you many leave in a few years wth some good memories and a desire for a new challenge. Nothing wrong with that. Best of luck...

[PAULH]

[Jack Tripper]

Hey guys,

I might have been out of context with my last post. I didn't know if a lot of people were particularly clear on just how long they'll stay in Japan before they got there (meaning they plan on sticking it out for a long time).

I would think that one should consider doing the short term first then if its working out, keep going- but as some folks are trying to clarify, the short term mentality is quite different from the long term. Now why would anyone want to court the idea of working long term in foreign country w/o trying it on a shorter time first? And I mean this on a professional career level, excluding the personal reasons of moving to Japan [why do the on set long-termers truly stay/or plan to stay in Japan?]

[cafebleu]

Birddog, Scarp, Jack the Tripper and anybody else who is coming or thinking of coming to Japan for the first time - don`t get too anxious about Japan, don`t come with too many preconceptions, and don`t rely on foolish and downright dishonest books such as JR Reid`s Confucious Lives Here to influence your thinking.

You CAN live an enjoyable life in Japan - I think Paul H, Glenski, Brooks, and other posters tell it how it is but they also inform you that it is worthwhile living here if you can get your head around some vital facts. I enjoy living in Japan but I am not going to hide the fact that it is a deeply prejudiced and narrow society, and absolutely rife with corruption which is why it is so expensive. It is just something you have to come to terms with if you live here longer than three years. You can accept you are not going to be able to change most of the problematic things you encounter here, but you don`t have to excuse these things or gloss them over.

Some things that I really enjoy here are: teaching nice people ( I think Japanese students of English mostly are respectful and relatively easy to get along with in class if you are a good teacher - I am not speaking here of junior high school or high school classes),
usually experiencing a high level of customer service whether it is on buses/trains or in shops,
the availability of relatively healthy fast food,
a culture where confrontational behaviour in public is avoided (although that has its downside - a rude person taking up two seats by sprawling over them on a train, whether awake or asleep, is not told by anybody to stop being so damned selfish),
and to some extent more safety on the streets at night than in western countries.

Come to Japan with friends if you can - it will make so much difference. I had a cruel time when I came to Japan. I was isolated in the countryside with neighbours who for the most part can kindly be described as ignorant and prejudiced. I only stayed here because I met my partner (a lovely and cosmopolitan Chinese man) and it was then I started experiencing Japan as opposed to staying in my house, spending huge amounts of money on international telephone calls, coffee and junk food because of tremendous stress.

[homersimpson]

The last several posts in particular raise an interesting question: When do you know when it's time to leave Japan (or for that matter, when you realize you never will)? I love Japan, but I fall into the prior group; I know I'll leave someday, but just don't know when.

[PAULH]

[Gordon]

[homersimpson]

Gordon and PaulH,
Thanks for your input. I've been here long enough to realize the honeymoon period has ceased to exist for me. However, currently I have a really good job, which is the primary thing keeping me here (and not just because of the money, vacation, etc., but because I have really good kids). I've been thinking about leaving for awhile and I won't be able to recharge my batteries this summer because the plane ticket to the U.S. is outrageous this year; just bummed about that I suppose. (So I'll be melting away down here in Kagoshima -- oh well, I could stand to lose a few pounds)!

[PAULH]

Homer,

All well and good and with all due respect, can I ask you some questions?

1. How long have you been here and when is your expected pullout date (mine was about 15 years ago)

2. Is there a Japanese girlfriend in the wings or a prospect of marriage? Sometimes you dont want to be here, sick of teaching etc but you have things stopping you leaving.

3. Whats the longest you think you could stay here without leaving the country? (due to not affording a ticket or other circumstances- The longest i was here at one stretch between trips home was two and half years.

4. How would you feel about being in your forties and fifties and raising kids here? Many of us (not just me but Glenski and Denise I think) are in that position and you really have to like this country, or at least not hate it, or have come to terms with it. When you have family air travel becomes expensive for 3 or 4 people)

5. Do you ever sick of your existence as a 'gaijiin', an outsider (not the same as being black or minority in America mind you) and not always feeling you belong to this society, or your feel your life here is defined by it? May be fun when you are twenties and single but when you experience inbuilt discrimination, and it actively inhibits your life here, you know its time to get out (term limits for foreign university professors, lack of right to vote for permanent foreign residents, always feeling marginal etc). Maybe discrimination against your kids becuase they are 'half etc. even though they are born here and Japanese.

6. Could you see yourself, buying a house, retiring , or even dying here? I have at least one foreign friend who died prematurely (in his early 50's) and is buried in Kobe.

7. I teach great kids too, but those kids leave, get older, graduate etc. After a year or two they become a distant memory and after ten years you feel you have nothing to show for it. Some of the kids I teach now were infants when i first taught in Japan, i had never met them but through my life here I began able to establish some material milestones (not just 'things' but being able to support my kids, pension fund etc. Work is a way of keeping score, but sometimes I wonder if you dont have any regrets down the line.

[denise]

[guest of Japan]

The last few posts were great reads. They were so honest and reality filled that I gave them all multiple reads.

PaulH, I think the person you were thinking of is Sherri.

I've been here only three and a half years. I married a Japanese woman about a year ago. We're both around 30 years old. We plan to leave Japan in about 2 years. The reason we plan to leave is because Japan does not offer an attractive future for either of us.

My wife is soon to face sexist age discrimination in finding and keeping employment and the problems for foreigners have already been well presented. I've never met a long term foreigner who didn't feel stuck here. The longer you stay in Japan, the more unsatisfying it becomes.

Just look at the faces of Japanese salarymen on the trains. Why would anyone wish that upon him or herself?