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Whats up with foreigners?
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TokyoLiz



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a sad reason not to say hi to you in the street. You see, the majority of foreigners that I run into are tansient. I'm intending to stay a while. I meet people, get to know them, and then they go home. I've stopped saying goodbye and instead say See you around.

Another thing that makes me sad is the number of foreign people here, mostly English teachers, who don't understand rudimentary Japanese even after a year here . Of course, sometimes it's fun to translate for your new friends, but it gets tedious after a while. The non-Japanese speaking people I've met tend not to understand the cultural cues.

Greeting neighbours and making small talk with strangers is actually a lot of fun in Japan. I frequently talk to people in my neighbourhood. The neighbours tell me about little treasures in the city, all about the cats in our street, how their kids are doing in school. And when I'm out walking, or go to the sento or attend a matsuri or go to the local bar, there are people who are quite welcoming and have something to say. I've met quite a few friends just in passing in the park and at matsuris. I'd say my Japanese and gaijin friends are about 50/50 right now.

So, if I see you in the shotengai, I'll smile or nod my head, but I probably won't say hello. I respect your privacy.
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Nagoyaguy



Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 425
Location: Aichi, Japan

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TokyoLiz wrote:
So, if I see you in the shotengai, I'll smile or nod my head, but I probably won't say hello. I respect your privacy.


That's just great. Most people aren't looking to discuss the homoerotic ramifications of the use of swords in "War and Peace", just a simple acknowledgement. The scowls and disdain are another matter.

Again, it all depends where you live and who you are in contact with in your daily life. Smaller city, more smiles and nods. Shibuya or Roppongi, do the big city thing and refuse to acknowledge the existence of anyone or anything.
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Tonester



Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 145
Location: Ojiya, Niigata Pref

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TokyoLiz wrote:
I have a sad reason not to say hi to you in the street. You see, the majority of foreigners that I run into are tansient. I'm intending to stay a while. I meet people, get to know them, and then they go home. I've stopped saying goodbye and instead say See you around.

Another thing that makes me sad is the number of foreign people here, mostly English teachers, who don't understand rudimentary Japanese even after a year here . Of course, sometimes it's fun to translate for your new friends, but it gets tedious after a while. The non-Japanese speaking people I've met tend not to understand the cultural cues.

So, if I see you in the shotengai, I'll smile or nod my head, but I probably won't say hello. I respect your privacy.


I can understand why you feel this way. I accept that there are people who have no plans to stay in Japan long-term and that you feel that if you make friends with them they'll end up leaving after a while. Although I do not claim to hold the ultimate answer to why this is the case but my take on it is that some people after a while find Japanese culture to be constrictive/oppressive and feel a need to get away from it by either going to another country or back to their country of origin. By this statement I mean to offend no-one although I understand that this is a highly sensitive topic indeed.

A person I know has been in Japan 8 years and is a full-time-tenured SHS English teacher and he told me that most non-japanese find that at first the newbie to Japan (Remember that this is a general situation with exceptions duly noted, not a blanket situation describing every non-Japanese person so no offence is intended) finds the culture interesting. As time goes on the layers of Japanese culture start to reveal their true selves and the sojourner then starts to baulk and become stressed (Culture shock at its peak).

Most people who intend to be in Japan permanently end up leaving after 3 years because the culture shock is too much for him/her and cannot find coping strategies to deal with the psychological strain that culture shock dishes out.

Thus that person admits defeat and either goes home or another country. It's either that or the person comes to Japan for not-very-well-thought-out purposes in the first place but even then, people who fall under the latter category go through the same cycle anyway.

With all that being said, I recognise that most non-Japanese including myself want to make a go of it and have long term plans here. Amongst those people too there are some that cannot handle the culture shock and end up going home as a result. It is never easy to live in a foreign country permanently but in the end if you can overcome the psychological strain that is culture shock; then you will be successful living in a foreign country.

I emphasise that the above does not constitute the whole reason as to why there are transient non-Japanese people in Japan but offers part of the reason. The whole reason is more complex than that but I intended to shed a little more light by the above theory I have outlined as a partial explanation. If anyone takes any issue with anything I've written then please feel free to let me know because I need to be enlightened further and if I am wrong in any aspect then I need to know.
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AgentMulderUK



Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 360
Location: Concrete jungle (Tokyo)

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tonester wrote:

Most people who intend to be in Japan permanently end up leaving after 3 years because the culture shock is too much for him/her and cannot find coping strategies to deal with the psychological strain that culture shock dishes out.

Really, what 'culture shock' is that then? I have yet to be shocked by anything in Japan.....cultural or otherwise............
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6810



Joined: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 309

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I interpret culture shcok here to mean the sense of being Alien. That is everything, at least seems, different right down to the subtle nuances of how they do it back home.

And, sliding slightly off topic - it is interesting that most posters on this and other boards are generally temporary immigrants from the first world.

What's my point? That they can always go home. Many immigrants, past and present immigrate for a variety of reasons usually including some pressing/opressive conditions whether it be family, finance, life itself or politics...

First world "sojourners" however, seem to not only have one eye pointed back home but the remainder of that return ticket in the back pocket.

As for saying hi to the other foreigners kickin about here? I do it. Pass me in the street, I'm the dork speaking Japanese who saw you, acknowledged your look and your look away (for whatever reason) and simply got on with living my life.
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AgentMulderUK



Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 360
Location: Concrete jungle (Tokyo)

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

6810 wrote:
I interpret culture shcok here to mean the sense of being Alien. That is everything, at least seems, different right down to the subtle nuances of how they do it back home.
.


yeah well, I just don't feel that Japan is particularly 'Alien'
If anything I feel it's particularly not alien (on the surface, or otherwise)
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PAULH



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AgentMulderUK wrote:
6810 wrote:
I interpret culture shcok here to mean the sense of being Alien. That is everything, at least seems, different right down to the subtle nuances of how they do it back home.
.


yeah well, I just don't feel that Japan is particularly 'Alien'
If anything I feel it's particularly not alien (on the surface, or otherwise)


If japan is not alien to you then, how do you feel about trips back home, reverse culture shock and how different things are to here?

I got over culture shock years ago myself, consider Japan to be home, and sometimes feel like a tourist whenever I go back home. Like the others I dont find things in Japan to really shock me any more, just the annoying 'nihongo/ hashi ga jouzu desu ne' stuff even after over a decade (nearly two) here and with my own kids here in school.
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Tonester



Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 145
Location: Ojiya, Niigata Pref

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agentmulder,

Culture shock involves being cut off from the cues that are familiar to you. In other words, cut off from the familiarity of the ways of your own country. A lot of people find it hard to cope with things like that. That was what I was referring to.
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Chris12



Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:23 am    Post subject: Re: Whats up with foreigners? Reply with quote

Marika wrote:
I would like to know if many of you have had some of the same experiences I have had with foreigners. Now I've meet some amazing foreigners here. Very friendly and good people. But I've also meet those people who think they're just to good and when I walk by and smile they just give you the icey stare and couldn't give to hoots about even saying hello. Its like they're disgusted you would even talk to them. Why is that? Could someone please answer this for me.
You'd think being in a Country where it can be really tough to communicate and things are so different you would try to be nice and get along. Do some people think they're better?
This whole thing confuses me and I'd like someone to give me some insight on this whole phenomenon.
Cheers!


Please don't take it personal! I wrote you an E-mail but what to state here too that I am sorry for what I wrote on the other post about not hanging around foriegners.
What I meant to express:
When feeling homesick try to hang out with people with positive attitudes. The worst thing to do when feeling homesick is to sit around with people talking how bad life is in Japan.

Again, I am so sorry for giving you bad feelings!
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