Job Discussion Forums

[guruengerish]

The query regarding Europeans working in Indonesia as teachers, is NO, they're not on 'the list'. They have to be native English speakers. The list as far as I know is: UK, Canada, USA, Australia, NZ, South Africa. I must add that I've heard some Europeans esp. Swedes, who speak a lot clearer than many native speakers.

In regards to accommodation, if the school rents a place for you, you normally pay the school monthly. If you're doing your own thing, then you could be asked for up to 2 yrs in advance, white man's rates, and you look after all maintenance.

EF Kebon Jeruk (West Jakarta) had a good deal going, as they supplied each teacher with a small apartment for a reasonable monthly rental.

[ls650]

[guruengerish]

Well, SA appears on some job adverts, but not all. I don't know what the official line is.

[Chester]

my impression is that many of the Language Companies are owned/managed by Chinese-Indonesians who have a set of rules - for the sake of having rules. many are non-sensical (spelling?) I know of germans, french even czech guys who live and teach in jakarta - freelance like myself. but dont work with EF . lots of work with other companies, high schools etc. nice guys too. Personally i have no time for inflexible (inflexable?) management. i also think .....oops i will touch this on another post re what makes a good manager - definitley not the above and definitely not teachers.

[Cardinal Synn]

Indeedy. Some of the worst teachers I've known were managers...or is it the other way round? Doh!

By the way, "Doh" as used by Homer Simpson was nicked from the great Jimmy Finlayson - bald, handlebar-mustachioed actor who often appeared as a foil to Laurel and Hardy in their movies, mostly in the 1930s. When the bumbling dua did something to pi5s him off big time, he'd look at the camera and say, "DOH!". My friends and I would use "doh!" in the playground many years before the Simpsons existed. Now it's attributed to Homer. Huh.
Here is a link so you can hear the Scottish actor utter "Doh!"
http://www.patfullerton.com/lh/costars/fin.html
Thought that would fascinate you all!

[guruengerish]

Re your comment on Chinese managers, has anyone ever come across an English school which was NOT managed by a Chinese/Indonesian? Nothing racist in this query, just curiosity. Having said that, I know that one school in Bandung is or was, mostly owned by a fellow Aussie. It was a good lesson in how a school should be run.

Going back to the topic of EF Makassar, why on earth do schools accept all the hard work of teachers who prepare their CVs and send them on, and then totally ignore them? It wouldn't take a few seconds to send on a 'thank you, but no thanks' note.

[route67]

Why are school managers invariably Indonesian/Chinese? Because they're the business class here, that's why. And no nonsense about that being a racist comment. I'm hardly saying "dem black folks sure got dat riddum, boss". The Indonesian/Chinese are simply harder working - and harder-nosed - at business. Give them a choice of 3 priorities (for the sake of argument Family, Business & Friends), and there priorities will be as follows:

1. Business
2. Business
3. Business

Having said that, I'd love to see a haggling contest between a Chinese/Indonesian and a taxi-driver outside JJs...

And...be under no illusion - EF is first, and foremost, a business (a sausage factory, would be my guess). Anyone who has notions of being a "proper" teacher should forget about EF.

Did I forget to offend anyone? If I did, kindly f*** off.

[Winmar]

But surely it's up to the teacher - the quality of the class should be down to what the teacher prepares and presents. A good teacher could teach a good class at any of the schools. If you want to be a 'proper' teacher, work at a primary or secondary school.

[guruengerish]

Yes, Winmar is spot on. Everything is up to the teacher. Then you get the teachers who won't set homework, everyone 'passes' the English tests and they run heaps of games and videos. Then the students grumble 'cos the other classes are easier. A lot of this revolves around the DOS, who is the guy who won't renew a contract as you're "too tough on the kids".

[phis]

Well, the original post was a long time ago, and related to working with EF I believe, but I'm not sure how it got twisted round into 'Chinese/Indonesian management' pros and cons! Education has become a business, in both the public and private sector, and in all businesses the objective is to make a profit. The best shareholders/managers will leave you alone, just as long as you are doing what is expected. Parents want their children to improve their English. If you, as a teacher, are helping them to do that, then everyone is happy! Ergo, no problem.

Back to EF: What I would really like to know is why, when EF offers inferior wages in relation to most other schools - and generally gets worst reviews for job satisfaction, etc. - people continue to apply to these schools above all others. Is it just that they are such a multi-national operation, and have better advertising posibilities?

YES, I AM FRUSTRATED!! I keep advertising excellent jobs with almost no response. I, also, keep hearing inane comments, such as, 'if a school keeps having to advertise it is a sign of things not right, etc. etc. etc'.

The reality is often that: A school keeps advertising because:

a) It is a good school and is growing so rapidly it needs more teachers on its team (reality)
b) It is determined to eliminate applicants who it feels will not fit into its current team, because it believes it is more important to have a team that works well together. (reality)
c) Contracts are signed for one year, but not all at the same time, and it is necessary to keep advertising for teachers, usually every two or three months, depending how big the school is. (reality)
d) Teachers who have been with the company for two or three years may decide to move on for personal reasons. (reality)
e) The company prefers a particular web site, so ads seem to appear more frequently than the usual. (reality)

[ls650]

[phis]

MOD EDIT who has no idea of the reality here! Two thirds of the island of Sumatera was 'unaffected' by the earthquake and subsequent tidal waves!! 'Unaffected', in that we did not suffer the physical destruction, although we have had to suffer the emotional results of what has happened here, many of us with the loss of people we held dear.

The best thing that can happen to Sumatera and Indonesia as a whole, at the present time, and in the forseeable future, is the restructuring of the island (and Indonesia), and the continuation of education in whatever form.

The western media talks about 'rebuilding Indonesia', as though it were a 'single small entity' where you can implement a 'single small policy' to implement the necessary changes. If you consult a map and do some research, you will soon realise that this is not true.

If you want to help - Come here and help educate people for the future! If you don't want to do that - don't waste people's time by posting spurious posts, where you know nothing about this wonderful country, and where you haven't done sufficient research to have an opinion on any subject pertaining to it.

WOW! I'M MAD, AREN'T I?

[route67]

Did I miss something? phis is mad at someone who advises avoiding Sumatera. Did the numpty - not phis - have second thoughts, or what?

As for the 'sausage factory' element, well...yes, you are part of a business, the business providing a sevice, that service being the teaching of (and, hopefully, the learning of - though that's not always the case, as we all know) English. The better the service provided, the healthier for the business. Theoretical (and highly simplistic), I know.

Anyway, look on the bright side, phis. You've avoided employing someone to whom you'd later have to explain "...and this is your elbow."

[phis]

Yes, I'm really, really sorry. Someone posted something on another thread that got me mad, and I inadvertently posted my reply on this thread.

Sorry again .

[route67]

...which occurred to me about 0.5 secs after I'd posted, only I was too damn lazy to do anything about it! No worries, old chap - Indo does that to you sometimes. For example, I'm on my way back to Jakarta - from Bali - soon, having been in Thailand and Singapore, and I reckon (what with the time zones and everything) that I should arrive a week past Tuesday, or sometime in June. Of 2023. You see? Confused! Happens to us all.