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Is there a worse university contract?
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ripslyme



Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 481
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How low can they go?
http://jrecin.jst.go.jp/seek/SeekJorDetail?fn=1&ln=1&id=D109080397&ln_jor=1

(just the highlights)
Quote:

Nagasaki University of Foreign Studies
...
Ten 90-minute classes per week, per semester
...
Full-time(Nontenured)
...
Monthly salary:280,000yen(MA), 300,000yen(PhD)
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womblingfree



Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 826

PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ripslyme wrote:
How low can they go?
http://jrecin.jst.go.jp/seek/SeekJorDetail?fn=1&ln=1&id=D109080397&ln_jor=1

(just the highlights)
Quote:

Nagasaki University of Foreign Studies
...
Ten 90-minute classes per week, per semester
...
Full-time(Nontenured)
...
Monthly salary:280,000yen(MA), 300,000yen(PhD)


Dreadful Shocked

I got more money as an ALT with only a BA. You'd have to be desperate to do a job like that after a Phd.
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GambateBingBangBOOM



Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

womblingfree wrote:
ripslyme wrote:
How low can they go?
http://jrecin.jst.go.jp/seek/SeekJorDetail?fn=1&ln=1&id=D109080397&ln_jor=1

(just the highlights)
Quote:

Nagasaki University of Foreign Studies
...
Ten 90-minute classes per week, per semester
...
Full-time(Nontenured)
...
Monthly salary:280,000yen(MA), 300,000yen(PhD)


Dreadful Shocked

I got more money as an ALT with only a BA. You'd have to be desperate to do a job like that after a Phd.


I think it may depend on how much the 'housing and travel allowance' comes out to. Maybe it comes to 100,000 a month. OTOH, it isn't like we don't read here and elsewhere that the market is saturated all the time. Maybe people will start leaving when they go to renew their visas and discover that they need to pay up to 900,000Y for health and back-payments. Universities are doing this probably because they know they can. People need experience working in universities, and so people may be willing to work for the same as they are getting at high schools (this is less than I make at my high school) in order to get that experience. And then, just like dispatch companies, you get no raise later, because if you ask for one, then they say, 'No. And we aren't renewing your contract. Next!'
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womblingfree



Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 826

PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GambateBingBangBOOM wrote:
it isn't like we
don't read here and elsewhere that the market is saturated all the time.


I really don't think the market is saturated with Phd grads, especially those specialising in Applied Linguistics.

GambateBingBangBOOM wrote:
Universities are doing this probably because they know they can.


It's most likely that the jobs they're advertising for are glorified eikaiwa positions. Advertise for a Phd grad and you may at least get someone with an MA, for a job that barely requires a BA.

For any actual jobs that involve research and lecturing rather than conversation practise, decent universities offer decent wages, moving costs and other benefits.

If you've got a doctorate, a few decent publications and some experience at international conferences, these jobs are a joke.
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GambateBingBangBOOM



Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The job is for people with an MA or people who have a PhD, and people with MAs in TESOL or Applied Linguistics aren't THAT uncommon.
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womblingfree



Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 826

PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GambateBingBangBOOM wrote:
The job is for people with an MA or people who have a PhD, and people with MAs in TESOL or Applied Linguistics aren't THAT uncommon.


Those with either MA's, especially Phd's willing to work for 300,000 yen a month that aren't in dire straits must be as common as blue moons.

After a year at a bog standard eikaiwa you'll be on 280,000, and a decent ALT agency should pay about 300,000. That's for people with no qualifications but an English vocabulary and a degree in anything.
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teaching in a Japanese university does not really require a PhD in applied linguistics. Anyone who has taught there knows that most courses are nearly eikaiwa in nature (with a much larger student body).

Quote:
People need experience working in universities
Usually, yes, but in some public school system, too. The problem lies in that unis don't really look for serious qualified teachers all the time. Look at the dispatch problem still with us.

womblingfree wrote:
Hey Glenski, what's the going rate for university jobs then?
Skim down the page here and you'll see the salaries for 2005 for some uni jobs nicely categorized. There is also a 2008 listing floating around somewhere by the same guy although in less detail.
http://www.palesig.blogspot.com/


Last edited by Glenski on Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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womblingfree



Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 826

PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From my experience outside Japan there are two main areas that universities look for;

English for Academic Purposes for the overseas students, on the pre-sessional courses and support courses throughout their study time. You can teach these with experience of EAP and a DELTA or an MA. These aren't part of their degree and are often run by external language centres.

If you actually want to get out of EFL and become a full-blown lecturer you'll need to get classes teaching stuff like Introduction to Linguistics, Syntax, Discourse Analysis, etc. You'll need an MA in Applied Linguistics to get a foot in the door, but this stuff usually requires a Phd.

Doing conversation practise at a university doesn't really count for much in terms of getting a job elsewhere. But the fact that you've been at a uni does, as no one need know what you were actually doing there! The teaching of English conversation in Japan's a really interesting topic for research though.

Glenski wrote:

http://www.palesig.blogspot.com/


That's great.
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no experience teaching outside Japan, so my views come only from within the country.

Universities vary a bit in how they approach teaching EFL. Most have the typical "support courses" for the first year or two: conversation, reading, listening, writing. Beyond that, it depends on the uni. You might have some specialized courses (ESP/EST/EAP), and you might have more advanced writing series of courses. Some (few) schools even divide the population into levels to stream students based on TOEIC scores. The smaller schools can't do that because there aren't enough teachers.

I have not heard of any school offering anything special as you described for the foreign students, though. My own school has only 1 or 2 foreign undergrads, and half the grad students are foreign but don't need to take English courses (yet).
Quote:

If you actually want to get out of EFL and become a full-blown lecturer
I beg your pardon. There are many of us in EFL who indeed are "full-blown lecturers"! Besides, there is hardly any need in Japan to teach "Introduction to Linguistics, Syntax, Discourse Analysis, etc." because of the low level of students and the way the educational system is structured.
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womblingfree



Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 826

PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenski wrote:

Quote:

If you actually want to get out of EFL and become a full-blown lecturer
I beg your pardon. There are many of us in EFL who indeed are "full-blown lecturers"! Besides, there is hardly any need in Japan to teach "Introduction to Linguistics, Syntax, Discourse Analysis, etc." because of the low level of students and the way the educational system is structured.


I was meaning teaching the actual major of a students course rather than as a supplemental language course within Japan. Only really possible at British/American etc universities abroad or at home I suppose. It's not necessary to teach that stuff in Japan to students that aren't studying Applied Linguistics, and even if they are I presume the classes would most probably be in Japanese.

Outside Japan teachers of supplemental language programs are not lecturers in the same sense that the staff teaching the BA/MA/Phd's are. They don't do any research for one thing and are usually employed by the uni's language centre rather than an actual faculty.

Teaching ESP/EST/EAP at university level is exactly what a relevant MA prepares you for. Are these students mostly preparing to study abroad?


Last edited by womblingfree on Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:14 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

womblingfree wrote:
Teaching ESP/EST/EAP at university level is exactly what a relevant MA prepares you for. Are these students mostly preparing to study abroad?
None that I know of. EST/ESP/EAP covers quite a range of topics, and students don't have to be pursuing careers or schooling abroad to take such courses.
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womblingfree



Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 826

PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's the deal with that Rikkyo job? Is it usual to expect your staff to work 6 days a week? Doesn't look much like the Shangi-la I'd been led to believe was life working at a Japanese uni.
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, it is far from the norm to have a 6-day work week. Five is standard.

A 3-month bonus described on this ad...
http://jrecin.jst.go.jp/seek/SeekJorDetail?fn=0&ln=1&id=D109071348&ln_jor=1
... says "one month of summer bonus and 2 months of winter bonus", so it's not really a 3-month bonus. That's not a 3-month bonus per se. I get a summer bonus that's smaller than my winter bonus (like most companies). However, the ad also says something strange:
"The first bonus at the first year, will be prorated based on the numbers of calendar days after the commencement of assignment." Sounds like the school is really trying to be cheap here. Just my opinion.

I remember this job being described on GaijinPot. Not a heckuva lot of positive responses. Here's the ad in case people are interested.
http://recruit.rikkyo.ac.jp/content.html
14 90-minute classes per week
Monday through Saturday
Classes of only 8 students each

"Instructors are expected to devote two class hours (three hours) a week to office hours and one class hour (an hour and a half) a week to meet with their supervisor..."

Definitely not the norm. Regular teachers don't have "supervisors".

Instructors are expected to provide feedback to their students by filing a report after class.
Nope. Not the norm.
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womblingfree



Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 826

PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a shame about Rikkyo, I always had an impression they had a progressive attitude towards ELT after reading this:

http://www.eltnews.com/features/interviews/2001/06/interview_with_kumiko_torikai.html

Also the classes for that advertised job are to classes of 8 students, whereas I thought classes at other uni's were usually enormous.

Looks like market forces are at odds with what's best for students and teachers yet again.

They've just re-advertised and extended the positions, so I guess it's not been very popular.
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That interview is 8 years old and IMO really doesn't say anything new, even back then. I don't see how you got "progressive" out of it.

As for the small class size, yes, most uni courses have 40, 50, even more students (I've had as many as 120 in a single section!). Rikkyo states that they want 8 students because (so they say) that's the class size the bishop started with in the first year of Rikkyo. All well and good, and 8 is a fantastic class size, but how realistic is it to teach all students in one grade? You'd have to have a zillion sections and as many teachers (pretty close to what the ad suggests), or not a large student population overall.
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