Job Discussion Forums

[m o n k]

Good points, martinphipps. But I didn't get (and really hope I didn't give) the impression that anyone here was generalizing. I started the thread by asking for opinions of the theory that *some* Taiwanese consider it a loss of face to be seen speaking Chinese to a foreigner. Looking at the context of the entire thread, I think it could be argued that we haven't made generalizations. Of course this phenomenon isn't displayed by all Taiwanese. However, it does seem to be something that a number of us have encountered. The context of non-generalization was set at the beginning, and I think we took that as a given throughout.

Also, although I can only say for sure about myself, I'm pretty sure that the people who have shared their experiences in this thread have lived/lived in Taiwan more than a few months. They'll have to speak for themselves.

You are right, though, that some Taiwanese may get flustered/react the way they do because they don't understand our Chinese. In fact, I often assume this is the case (and TaoyuanSteve stated this as well). However, it does not account for all of our experiences. And *those* unaccountable experiences are the ones I am interested in disecting.

As usual, no offense meant, and none taken. If you feel offended, it's probably unintentional. I rarely read over carefully before posting, so just know that I probably meat it softer .

[TaoyuanSteve]

Yes. Let's keep this thread on topic. We've all lived here "more than a few months" I'm sure. Let's none of us take a tone of superiority or assumption re: others' Mandarin ability. We are also all aware of such facts as Taiwanese is a separate language, Mandarin is a second language for some people here and so on. I didn't get here yesterday and it's safe to assume most of us didn't as well. We are all aware (or should be) that alot of lockup situations result from our accents or pronunciation errors. We all know that as non-native speakers. Please don't bring that up again. We all know Taiwanese, generally, are very friendly folk as well. Don't need to mention that again. I like this thread the way Monk started it: discussing a very specific nuance of foreigner to local verbal interaction. In this situation, comprehension has been achieved on the part of the local. Our language ability is not the issue. Manners are not the issue either. If you've experienced something like it, please share. If you haven't read and enjoy.

[crespo]

I liked the story about CKS airport. I remember being pretty surprised, on one of my trips through the airport, that so many people there couldn't speak any English at all. Taiwan has such high aspirations of becoming a world class country and of boosting international tourism and yet the very place you would expect some English spoken lets you down.
At any rate, it's an interesting idea that the some people feel they are losing face when not speaking English to a white foreigner. Most of your reactions seem to be so understanding. I must admit that when a situation arises when people can not get it through their heads that maybe a foreigner is speaking Chinese, my blood really starts to boil.
I'm curious if it is this same fear of losing face by not speaking English which is why, for example, on the bus the seat beside me will invariably be the last one to fill (all jokes aside..no i don't smell, etc. ). ARe they afraid that I might ask them an English question and they wouldn't understand? I suppose this is better than a person sitting down and saying "Can I practise my English with you?" That's a bit of a pet peeve of mine.

Slightly off topic....I've been in China for the past 3 months and i must say that it is far easier here to learn Chinese as the majority of people only know 'hello'.
I would also fully agree the the hat metaphor. I feel quite certain that my own fear was my biggest fault in speaking Chinese when I was in TAiwan (again, being in China has helped that considerably).

[m o n k]

[m o n k]

It's been a while, so here's a bump.

[A'Moo]

It is regarded as a loss of face. When a westerner speaks Chinese, you take away the last bastion of supposed superiority that these people have...You are already regarded as being more worldly, more successful, better looking, the list grows....

[dangerousapple]

A'Moo, that doesn't sound like Taiwan to me. Is that how it is in Mainland China?

[A'Moo]

China, HK, Taiwan. In fact, I think it is at it's worst in HK, followed by Taiwan...

[Double Clutcher]

Even though many people where I am at in Hunan are xenophibic, people as a whole are happily surprised when they find out I can speak Chinese and are often delighted to talk with me.

[A'Moo]

Agreed. People in places like Hunan definitely seem more upbeat about the prospect of a foreigner speaking Chinese. They lack that chip on their shoulder that many in the bigger cities in China/territories seem to posess.

[craigzy]

ive only been here a short time, but ive found that many locals like to help foreigners out with their mandarin. they seem to appreciate the fact that im trying to learn.

of course, there are others that will ignore you completely.

[m o n k]

Bump!

[JZer]

[JZer]

[JZer]