|
Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Deborann

Joined: 20 Oct 2003 Posts: 314 Location: Middle of the Middle Kingdom
|
Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 6:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
As far as I know there are MANY language schools in China.
I teach in one of the public universities, and work in the Business faculty lecturing in International Management and Human Resources Management (3rd and 4th years). But I have 4 classes (the 40+) ones of 1st year Business students that I teach Speaking and Listening to. I am required to call a roll at the commencement of each class and even for the biggest class (100+) this does not take as long as you would expect.
My students are therfore focussed on their business studies and most of my work in the S & L classes is to aimed at increasing their ability to communicate effectively in a business setting. I use their full names whenever I call the roll, and also when I call on them to respond.
If you are learning Chinese it is not that hard - just gives you another chance to practice. My students will congratulate me when I get it right, just as I congratulate them on doing well.
Would you expect a teacher of Chinese or any other nationality teaching in your home country to give you a nickname, diminutive or another name merely because it was easier for them? Or call you by number? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Lynn

Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 696 Location: in between
|
Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 7:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I know that in Japan taking another name is strictly taboo. In college I had a Japanese classmate name "Lisa". That wasn't her real name. The other Japanese students could not bring themselves to call her that. I felt so bad for her. I think her real name was Yuki or Yukie which are both beautiful names in Japanese, but I can see how that can easily turn into the English word "Yucky!". I only called her Lisa.
Just the other day here in Seattle I went to a yoga class and the teacher introduced herself as "seiko". She didn't know I could speak Japanese. I saw a flyer for the school and I noticed that her name was actually, "saiko". Saiko is also a beautiful Japanese name, but in English is sounds like, "psycho". I don't blame her for going by "seiko" it probably just saves her time explaining and going through the whole joke thing.
My middle name is Lynn, but first name is different. In Japan I use write my name phonetically in katakana(Japanese characters) but still so many Japanes do not want to call me this. They insist that the English spelling doesn't match. So now I just keep my English spelling a secret.
I also had a friend named, "Holly". She hated how Japanese called her "Ho-li" I said, "why don't you just write "ha-li" since that is how it is pronounced in English?"
The most important thing is to call someone what he/she wants to be called; not what you think is right.
*exceptions for those students who chose names like sh*t or f*ck or something* |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138
|
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Deborann wrote: |
As far as I know there are MANY language schools in China.
well.
Would you expect a teacher of Chinese or any other nationality teaching in your home country to give you a nickname, diminutive or another name merely because it was easier for them? Or call you by number? |
Deborann,
the rationale of giving Chinese students a western (who says it's got to be an english one?) is not the same as the rationale of westerners adopting a CHINESE name.
If you can cope with pronouncing a hundred Chinese names every time you are doing an excellent job;
but I assure you for Chinese to adopt a western name has nothing to do with alienating them from their own language background. To some extent, it may actually enhance their immersion in the western culture, though it may be hard to notice this in a school setting.
However, have you paid any attention to how Chinese use names? NOt the same as we do.
To begin with, they invariably refer to themselves in the time-worn fashion of enunciating their surname followed by their given name; there is no variation. Thus, these names seem to melt into one unit. A three-syllable name is quite a pronunciation hurdle. While you may get used to those different 'Li's and 'Chen''s, the various given names can carry ominous or other meanings and connotations that esacpe you. Imagine someone's given mname was "Dadong'. One possible meaning is rather vulgar, and if you mispronounce this name you are going to put that person in a very shameful spot! Anyway, believe me, i simply have trouble pronouncing those given names when romanised - some come off my tongue easily, but some cause me endless trouble.
It is a SERVICE to the CHinese students to give them an easy-to-remember name. Also, some feel it is cool to be called "Carlos" or "Yassir" or "Cleopatra".
As for us and our abhorrence of Chinese names: why should I adopt a Chinese name in the first place? You canNOT transliterate a western name into Chinese script without inflicting serious disfigurement to the name. My own name is not too difficult to sinicise, but look at names such as McDonald's! While I understand a CHinese person pronouncing it in Mandarin I find it bewildering that they read it in exactly the same Mandarin fashion even when speaking English. Obviously, they don't take their minds off their script!
Also, western names are far easier to identify and recognise. I wish the Chinese would finally learn to use names competently: surnames prefixed with a "Mr" or a "mrs" instead of following them with "teacher" or "doctor" in the Chinese fashion. Also, why is it necessary to accommodate CHinese preferences for oversimplifications in that they can't be bothered to learn to pronounce our surnames? Why do schools put us in a lower station by using our first names? I don't go for it, and my CHinese learners had better familiarise themselves with polite western etiquette.
Even my students who have adopted an English name don't know which name to use when; when I tell them to give me their FULL NAME, they invariably ask: "My English name or my Chinese name?"
Methinks holistic thinking is a far cry from what's being taught in CHinese classrooms!
And a last word on numbers: believe me, I am the last who wants to identify people by numbers. But it is the Chinese themselves who dehumkanise themselves this way. Schools are not interested in the NAMES of their tuition-paying customers; they are interested in the score averages of WHOLE CLASSES.
Unfortunately, Chinese students are extremely resourceful when it comes to dodging their own duties. Absences are regular, and excuses 9especially "valid" ones) are rare!
Today, I spotted a girl sneaking out of the classroom during the lesson. When challenged, she first told me she had been going to the toilet; later she contradicted herself saying she was going to "check" the presence of OTHER STUDEWNTS in a different class; why was she going to do THAT?
For money! A CHinese teacher - absent for one reason or another! - had asked her to perform this kind of "favour" for her! And the good girl obliged! Or tried to - I didn't allow her to go!
This from a 22-year old university student... |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Deborann

Joined: 20 Oct 2003 Posts: 314 Location: Middle of the Middle Kingdom
|
Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| As for us and our abhorrence of Chinese names |
My point was that if a Chinese teacher came to the US and gave students an 'easier' i.e Chinese (for THAT teacher to say) name - would the US system or students or parents find this acceptable?
| Quote: |
| why is it necessary to accommodate CHinese preferences for oversimplifications in that they can't be bothered to learn to pronounce our surnames? |
Isn't that exactly the point about learning to use the Chinese students real names?
If we expect them to use our names and titles correctly, then it a fair expectation that we return the courtesy.
| Quote: |
| ...identify people by numbers. But it is the Chinese themselves who dehumkanise themselves this way. |
All universities will give students a number for administration purposes. But my first year students do NOT reliably know their number, they are not expecting to be called by that number at any stage. They learn it to use for administrative identification for results exactly the same as in any western country.
Students in all countries are very good at dodging class and creating excuses. I feel that there is more emphasis on attendance here than in Australia. I am not bothered by whether the students come to class or not - if they are capable of doing the work, the assignments and the exam without attending classes - no problems. It worked for me back home - why not for students here? The roll calling is purely for the university admin purposes as far as I am concerned. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Kurochan

Joined: 01 Mar 2003 Posts: 944 Location: China
|
Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 3:29 am Post subject: Hmmm ... |
|
|
You know, when I was in Chinese class, my teacher ASSIGNED Chinese names to us, and we HAD to use them. So I guess we can't say it's some sort of exclusive imperialist practice if we ask our students to use a Western name in class.
Actually, the name assignment really had a good side -- I was able to end up with a "real" Chinese name that was better than one I could have picked myself. Learning to write it turned out to be useful too in SZ, where I had to put it on bank and medical forms. My name was hard to say/write, though, and I always felt jealous of kids called things like "Li Po." |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling. Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|