Job Discussion Forums

[Guest]

I'm behind you on this one R - well this one has no button for taking part out of boredom so I flipped a coin.

No seriously, I think it's a good idea, and I think R could moderate as he seems to have plenty of time on his hands. I'd like to help you out as the sacrificial virgin, but as a younger British lady - not a chance.

[MissMolly]

Xnihil -
It amazes me that newbies come to a site like Dave's, ask questions, and then critize the responses they get. Do you really expect someone who has worked in TEFL for one, five, ten, or twenty years to have all the answers? Experience is subjective.
Sure, some information will be inaccurate or uninformative. But that is no excuse for people to get huffy. Do newbies realize it is not the job of "experienced" posters to provide them with all of the information they need?
For crying out loud - do the leg work yourself! Sure, some countries don't require degrees or certificates to teach - but why should another poster know these by heart? And why can't you do the research yourself? This is not the only place for information. And please, take different opinions and responses and get an overall picture - form your own opinion! (Jeez - the lost art of the liberal arts major)
Bottom line - We all know what we know. If its not what you want to hear or helpful in your specific situation - look around for yourself and for god's sake - don't whine about it!

[johnslat]

It strikes me as rather odd that some of us, whose job it is to convey information, seem adverse to doing so to our ( potential ) colleagues. Of course, in the classroom we do get paid for doing so, but I'd thought that most of us probably became teachers, not for the ( HA! ) money, but rather because we enjoyed sharing what we know.
Regards,
John

[bnix]

Johnslat sounds like a pretty nice guy and I agree with him on most points...but "colleagues"?...well,maybe some of them.Let's look at the truth, though...there are a lot of them that should not even be in this business.They are just farting around overseas.I don't mind encouraging people who are serious about teaching...but a lot of them are not even serious.Again(as we have discussed before) this goes back to the "educational institutions",which gladly take people's tuition money...but which often teach no marketable skills.Can't get a job? Go overseas and "teach" English.I really do not think we need a separate forum.

[Shaman]

Johnslat is absolutely right. This is a topic that raises the hackles of some too damn easily. But of course, we all started out as veterans...

Regards,

Shaman

[cheryl]

jeeze, bitter much bnix?

i can understand both sides of the coin regarding this thread, but the whole point is that the "idea" of a non-hostile area for newbies is somethign that we newbies would like. Unfortunately, it's an idea that wouldn't be possible due to "seasoned teachers" who are just way to judgmental.

There are quite a few people on here who are extremely knowledgable and helpful, and who don't "type" like they're better than us because of their experience...it's unfortunate that threads like these forget people like that.

[johnslat]

Dear bnix,
" Pretty nice "?? Heck, they don't call me Mr. Nice Guy here for nothing ( I have to pay them 50 SR a month ). Perhaps there ARE some people who " shouldn't be in this business " ( as in any business ) , but I usually can't tell from a posting if that's the case. Besides, being such a Nice Guy, I'd prefer to give even those I might have some doubts about, the benefit of the doubt. But - to each his own. If a " newbie " forum IS created, well it's simple for you - just don't visit it.
Regards,
John

[R]

John, I agree with your point about teachers. If some of these people conduct their classes the way they behave on the forum, it must be a pretty terrifying experience for the students!

Student: "How do you say please, Ich gehe aus London?"

Teacher: "WHAT?!?! Why should I tell you?! You think you can come up to me and find out how to say these things, and then I suppose you'll just waltz into London and think you can have some kind of party with all your friends!! Well, you can't, you just can't!! I have parties in London and I wouldn't want your sort there! And you expect me to teach you English? Don't you think there are enough people in England who can barely speak the language, without adding to that number with rabble like you? I suppose you'll be drug dealing as well, and pimping English schoolgirls to the highest bidder! Get out of my sight!!!!"

Student:

Katy - "time on my hands"? I would prefer "seems highly adept at multi-tasking" (er, even if it is less accurate).

[Kent F. Kruhoeffer]

Hello Rob and Everyone:

To newbie or not to newbie ... that is the question, right? OK. To be honest, I'm still undecided on this one.

On the one hand, I find myself agreeing with Richard Ame when it comes to the 'sink or swim' idea. I mean, why attempt to sugar-coat the often harsh realities of life for EFL newbies, when that sugar-coating may actually be detrimental?

On the other hand, I am definitely in favor of any forum additions or modifications that might be helpful, both to Newbies and the old geezers like myself. And if that modification actually does result in a reduction of mudslinging and general nastiness, all the better.

So, although I'm not totally convinced about separating the 'men' from the 'boys', I have voted "aye" in the interest of forum unity.

Now just what will we call this new forum? We could make scot47 happy and call it the "Under 40 Club". Or maybe the "Everything I Always Wanted to Know About EFL but was Afraid to Ask Forum"??

HaveANiceWeekend,
kENT

[R]

Kent, thankyou for your hesitant support. I do agree that total segregation would be counterproductive, but remember that the boys and men can still, er, play together in the rest of the forum.

"..but Afraid to Ask" title. Quite brilliant. Beats my idea which was... wait for it... "Newbie Forum".

Rob, who shouldn't be in charge of naming things.

[johnslat]

Dear R,
That " Student/Teacher dialogue " ( your post 104 ) was hilarious. Kudos on making me laugh out loud while reading a posting ( for the 1st - but I hope not the last - time ).
Regards,
John

[R]

John,

what do you mean. "hilarious"? That was from one of my practice lesson plans! Oh well... back to the drawing board...

Rob.

[Glenski]

As many of you know, the people I help the most are the newbies. I would rather not see a separate forum for them.

1. It just makes one more forum to look at, and I already don't have time to handle what I take on. Don't you? Besides, why look twice for the information?

2. If you make it country-specific, you're asking Dave Sperling to pretty much double the size of the current forum. Unwieldly, at best, and I would expect it to present information that gets repeated on the other "veteran" forums.

3. If you don't make it country-specific, it'll just be harder to find the information, and it'll be "organized" just like the previous forum format. I put organized in quotes, because some people (usually the newbies) just don't put enough in the subject lines to indicate where they are referring to, so people could miss their posts.

4. If newbies get flames and eaten alive on the regular forums (and some do!), I suggest that the moderators find a way to soften the tones of those flamers. As someone wrote, a harsh answer like...

Will my wife hate Egypt?
YES!!!!

...is uncalled for and wastes so much time that it shouldn't even have been allowed to be posted in the first place. Can't moderators find ways to eliminate such stuff? (Let's not get into a discussion of censorship. The above reply is pretty easy to explain, and it's the type that I think should be deleted.)

5. Yes, newbies should have FAQ sections to refer to, and even if you have the best one, some newbies won't read it. But, at least it's something to help point them in a direction. It's been so long since I became a member here that I can't even remember if Dave offers some suggestions for newbies about how to post. I would tell them about writing coherent subject lines for one. And, to remember that not everyone is from the USA, so you shouldn't expect people to read minds and know your background. Perhaps filling out a more detailed profile would help that. (If you lie on it, that's your problem.) I just want to address the many cases where someone says something too general (I don't have a degree. Can I work in Yugoslavia?) and we spend half a dozen posts before we figure out the answer, and in the process, someone flames the poor guy, and we never hear from him again.

[arioch36]

As usual Glenski, an excellent reply. Stay away from the China forum for a while. Intelligent, rational thought is not permitted for the duration of the SARS "epidemic". I like to read the other forums on Asia, and just that take too much time. Hokkaido 2004 or bust!

[Kent F. Kruhoeffer]

Hello Again Good People:

Glenski made some very good points, but one point in particular is SO important, it needs repeating.

When 'newbies' post a question on ANY forum, it is extremely important for them to tell us:

1. Where they're from!

and

2. What their basic qualifications and credentials are.

and

3. Maybe ... how old they are. This is not in regard to age discrimination, but to the various visa options and programs that are sometimes age-dependant. (Case in point: the Working Holiday Visa for Japan)

Without that stuff, it is impossible to give good advice, and time is wasted!

Yours,
kEnt

PS: As for naming the new forum, how about this one? "Lean and Green, So Don't Be Mean!"