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jonjack
Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 34
Location: Canada
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 Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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Mahbubani should be searchable most easily under his most famous
work "Can Asians Think?".
Look for Simones work "The Asian Pacific: Political and Economic Development in a Global Context". I read the second edition of that one.
Camilleri I read just one work from and that was called "States, Markets and Civil Society in Asia Pacific".
In addition to my sources for you there is the net.
There are many web sites on the net with Asian Pacific Economic stats right?
It is really up to you to provide even one credible source that shows this zero inflation claim, which can be the onlt basis of your argument. Unless of course you are one of these people who has been in Asia too long, cannot deal with it in a developmentally positive way and have slid over to the lunatic fringe margins.
I hope that is not the case.
/JJ |
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TaoyuanSteve
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Taoyuan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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Of course, you are someone not in Asia at all. So, all of this is just academic, anyway.  |
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jonjack
Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 34
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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Thats your return volley? You ask for data that supports my statement -
and you got it. Then you complain their is not enough details to find it - so I gave you that. Now you say that these three PHD's have no credibility
because your referred to them by someone who has been in Canada for a while.
I hope this is not your best contribution to the board.
Your logic is that an illegal Mexican migrant in the United States knows more about the American scene than an vacationing in France. Geography wins. OK fine does time count? I lived in Asia tens years.
I put that against your--I estimate two to three.
Now for quality of experience I hope you have done more than teach English and learn how to say Lao ban duo xiao chen...?
Are you published in the ROC? Owned a business there? Member of the Academia Sinica? Got family there? Started any associations? Won any national sports cpmpetitions?
Do the above and we might be able to have ice coffee ya?
/JJ |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:56 am Post subject: |
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I have become somewhat confused with what exactly your point is.
You started out with a position that the presence of agents has resulted in a drop in wages.
| jonjack wrote: |
| Pay should be higher and agents do more harm than good. |
| jonjack wrote: |
| When there were basically no agents, good teachers could negotiate much higher starting wages. |
You haven�t supported this nor answered my questions regarding this claim so I assume that you now agree that there is little to no relevance between agents and our wages as a whole.
You were also stating that wages have dropped by which I assume that you mean that wages today are lower than they were when you were here ten years ago:
| jonjack wrote: |
| As agents became more and more prevalent pay increases were fewer and eventally, by about 1998 wages began to freeze and drop. |
| jonjack wrote: |
| Face facts, there are two basic reasons why wages stagnated then dropped, aside from the local economic factors which are less significant anywar so far. |
| jonjack wrote: |
| Teachers have lost 20% or more of their pay over 15 years or so. |
This despite the fact that your figures for what you say people were getting paid back then, are around ten percent lower than what people are getting paid now. You stated that the average wage back then was NTD500-600 per hour. It now stands at around NTD550-650.
| jonjack wrote: |
Schools were paying 500 -600 NT per hour in the late eighties and
early nineties. |
Then you threw in the furphy about your wage being NTD1,200 or some such, which may have suggested that many back then were earning this much, when in fact they weren�t and I called you on this so you reverted to your figures of NTD500-600.
| jonjack wrote: |
| My wage was on the high side for esl wages. But as I said several posts ago, the average back then was about 500NT net. From What I see on the internet esl wages still net about the same. |
So now we are in agreement that back then teachers were earning an average of NTD500-600. I have maintained that the current average is around NTD550-650 so this would mean that there does seem to have been a 10% increase in wages since the time that you were here � NOT a decrease, and NOT even stagnation. Sure wages could have gone up more which would have been nice, but I have already explained my reasons for this. Again you haven�t really explained your reasons for suggesting that wages have dropped and in fact seem to have contradicted yourself in later posts, so I assume that we are in agreement that wages haven�t dropped.
You have since changed tack by suggesting that you didn�t mean wages had dropped, but that they just hadn�t gone up with the CPI:
| jonjack wrote: |
| 500NT per hour in 1990 would have to be about 700-750 today to actually be the same rate of pay. Now if we factor in the less favorable exchange rate on top of the inflation then pay today should on average be about 900 to 1000 NT just to keep us where we were in 1990. |
| jonjack wrote: |
| IF you want to think that the situation has improved or maintained for teachers economically you are free to do so. |
You threw in the suggestion that this was all irrelevant anyway, as in your opinion the money we earn in Taiwan is only useful out of the country.
| jonjack wrote: |
| Spending the money in country is a joke. |
Again I believe that I was able to show that while this may have applied to you during your time here, that it certainly is no longer representative of foreigners in country now. I illustrated this using myself as an example. I should expand on this by saying that many of my friends now have business interests in Taiwan. I met a French guy just the other day who has been here for only two years and has already set up an office on Fuxing Road and has a pretty successful business owned entirely by him.
Most recently you have begun arguing about the inflation situation in Taiwan. Firstly, no one suggested that there had been zero inflation so I am not sure what you are arguing this for.
| jonjack wrote: |
| So the only argument that wages are even the same would be if there has been zero inflation for 15 years |
| jonjack wrote: |
| It is really up to you to provide even one credible source that shows this zero inflation claim, which can be the onlt basis of your argument. |
No one has stated that there has been zero inflation. I don�t believe though that the cost of living has gone up more than the 10% pay rate rise over the last decade. It is likely that teachers have actually come out on top as I haven�t noticed many things going up in price since I have been here, and even those things (such as gas) that have gone up, have increased within the 10% that I mentioned earlier. So, I don�t agree that teachers are worse off now than they were before. You have failed to support this argument and it is certainly not borne out by the experiences of those of us who are here. You may be able to find references of it in texts, but it is not a reality in the place that you are referring to.
What I was saying was that there has been no distinguishable rise in the cost of living here in Taiwan, but there has been a rise in wages.
| jonjack wrote: |
| Unless of course you are one of these people who has been in Asia too long, cannot deal with it in a developmentally positive way and have slid over to the lunatic fringe margins. |
Ah yes! There it is! The time old tradition of if unable to argue then try and insult. The Seeburn Strategy at it�s finest.
In my opinion length of time here and actually being in country now doesn�t mean everything but it does mean a lot. I think that you have proven that despite your ten years in Asia long ago, that you are clearly out of touch with the current situation. You have mentioned a number of factors that applied when you were here years ago, but that I have shown no longer apply. I suggest that you just accept that you are out of your depth and concede.
| jonjack wrote: |
Now you say that these three PHD's have no credibility
because your referred to them by someone who has been in Canada for a while. |
No one has suggested that these three individuals have no credibility, but I think that anyone with an ounce of intelligence would concede that for every academic that you can find that says one thing, I can find one that states the opposite. This is what calls the comments of academics into question � their motives and who they are paid by and working for.
The fact bears pointing out that this topic is not so much about inflation, but teachers wages in Taiwan and the cost of living. I realize of course that there is a relationship, but on the ground here in Taiwan this relationship isn�t as the academics suggest it is on paper. Who are we to believe? The academic who has probably spent a couple of weeks at best here in Taiwan, or the individuals who have lived and worked here for decades.
| jonjack wrote: |
| Your logic is that an illegal Mexican migrant in the United States knows more about the American scene than an vacationing in France. Geography wins. OK fine does time count? I lived in Asia tens years. |
This analogy is pretty silly not to mention irrelevant. For a start, TS and myself are not illegal.
Let�s talk about your ten years in Asia shall we. What years were you here? Where were you? What were you doing? Not too specific, just the basics.
| jonjack wrote: |
| I put that against your--I estimate two to three. |
In my case � ten years in Taiwan and China.
| jonjack wrote: |
| Now for quality of experience I hope you have done more than teach English and learn how to say Lao ban duo xiao chen...? |
In my case � yes. I have owned and sold two businesses for a profit. I have taught in all classes of teaching except universities (I don�t have a masters or above). I currently have four projects that I am working on.
| jonjack wrote: |
| Are you published in the ROC? Owned a business there? Member of the Academia Sinica? Got family there? Started any associations? Won any national sports cpmpetitions? |
In my case � yes, but not scientific publishing. My writings regarding ESL, teaching, and foreign teachers in Taiwan are available on the market.
Yes, I have owned a couple of businesses.
No, I am not a member of Academia Sinica, nor am I ashamed of the fact that I am not. What relevance does this have to teachers and teaching in Taiwan?
Family? Yes, there are other members of my family here.
Associations? No, I haven�t started any associations but I am involved with some. What�s the relevance of this?
Sports competitions? What has that to do with anything? I did win a Chinese calligraphy writing contest using a maobi at a distinguished university here in Taipei, which is probably more relevant to what we are talking about than sports competitions.
What about yourself? Please fill us in on your answers to the above in relation to Taiwan.
| jonjack wrote: |
| Do the above and we might be able to have ice coffee ya? |
No thanks! |
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TaoyuanSteve
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Taoyuan
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:25 am Post subject: |
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Let's just agree not to feed the troll further. The guy's not in Asia anymore (if we accept that he is who he claims to be, which I don't), but still thinks he knows more than current residents. Something ironic about a guy living thousands of miles away telling me about the conditions in the industry in which I work and the country in which I live. Gotta wonder what the motivation is for someone who supposedly left a long time ago is for this kind of discussion. Why come here if it isn't to troll? Whatever, Jonjack. You're the man. You know way more about the country I live in than I do (your support of posters like Aristotle clearly demonstrates this ). Next time I want to know something about this place, I'll write home to Canada about it.
How's the fishing? |
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jonjack
Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 34
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 6:57 am Post subject: |
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Well Clark you might be right about the current wages/inflation/financial situation for teachers. Your there I'm not.
Lunatic fringe was intended to make you laugh after a hard day of whatever your doing there.
I taught for a large textile company that is well known in Taiwan. After
two years of that, I noticed the American threat of using their 301 trade clause against Taiwan due to pirated satellite signals that Taiwan's fledgling cable companies refused to pay for. This forced the ROC to legitimize their cable T.V industry.
I quickly found a local partner and we set up a cable t.v consulting service.
I have a cable t.v. background. We helped small; Taiwan cable companies write business plans as part of their application to the Taiwan GIO for cable licenses. There was some $ going around. We also arranged their systems designs which were done in Canada.
This opened alot of doors for a guy who was in his mid twenties.
Sports side, I represented a city there in national tournaments of wrestling and Judo.
This added another layer of experience. A different type of experience.
I was never pubished with the exception of several articles about Cable
T.V for the China News. Oh and a few for Chinese papers that had to be translated. |
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Chris Smith
Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 86
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| So anyway, about Wall Street... |
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TaoyuanSteve
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Taoyuan
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| hehe...agreed. About Wallstreet boys. |
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Pop Fly
Joined: 15 Feb 2003
Posts: 429
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 4:07 am Post subject: |
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I just interviewed a candidate for our programs yesterday. She has been attending WSI for almost a year now. She has gone thru their entire system and is now using their "business" model for learning.
Yet, she could barely maintain a conversation. You'd think for 90,000NT, she'd have some proficiency. She doesn't.
While I will still maintain that WSI is one of the easier McJobs to work, their much vaunted natural approach is nothing more than a scam. Keeeerist, 90K to sit in front of a computer learning? What a waste. I get so sick of these schools that charge massive fees but don't give a sheet about performance.
I predict WSI will start closing its doors within 2 years. |
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Aristotle
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1388
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:33 am Post subject: |
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I predict WSI will start closing its doors within 2 years.
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Or sooner, with a little luck.
A. |
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ziggy stardust
Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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my God have you guys slipped off topic!
I'm a current WSI teacher..the pay and curriculum are both mediocre. The students are the best I've ever had in over 10 years of ESL teaching in Asia. Please feel free to PM me for any information. |
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Pop Fly
Joined: 15 Feb 2003
Posts: 429
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| ziggy stardust wrote: |
| my God have you guys slipped off topic! |
It's ok Zigster, we are back on topic now.
How often do you repeat a student there Ziggy? How can this person I interviewed the other day achieve level 68. She was still making consistent mistakes with her past tense (as an example). By the time they reach the 40's levels, that should be pretty clear, nu?
I know of a teacher still working there that has never repeated a student. What is that? Customer service? No wonder he always wins the silly popularity contests Mr. Greasy Anti-Buddha is so fond of running.
I originally went to WSI because they seemed to be more about actually helping the student achieve some speaking skills. But it turns out to be all flash and subterfuge. Memorization and rote learning with a high-tech beard. Same old story, same old song and dance my friend. There is nothing "natural" about it.
How's that Chit-Chat Cafe going? I only ask, you know, to keep this thread on topic.  |
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ziggy stardust
Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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Pop fly
my personal repeat rate is about 8%, but it does vary widely by location. I know that some locations don't repeat at all, while others have a higher return rate. I'm fortunate to work at one that is well run.
Your bete noire, a certain South African ponce, is, not well respected.. |
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