Job Discussion Forums

johnslat · Posted: Thu May 22, 2003 2:54 pm Post subject: Does size matter?

Dear Stephen,
" Does the fact that this thread is only a quarter ot the length of the thread on antecedents to relative clauses, reflect on EFL's teachers high moral stnadards, their passionate intellectual interests, or simply the parlous state of their finances? "

Hmm, my guess would be that SOME of us are more passionately aroused by syntax than by sin. To paraphrase a long-forgotten American vice-president: a woman is only a woman but a a good argument about grammar lasts longer, is less expensive and doesn't require Viagra. They both, however, can be ego-bruising experiences.
Regards,
John

Wolf · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 1245 Location: Middle Earth

Sunpower · Joined: 22 Jan 2003 Posts: 256 Location: Taipei, TAIWAN

When I was living in South Korea I always got a kick out of going up to Hoooker Hill.

No doubt, we were were looking for trouble.

It was alwasy interesting, though.

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

Wolf,
everybody is entitled to having an OPINION, of course! I just wish that on a board like this people do not start apportioning blame to one class, gender or race. Prostitution is a multifaceted phenomenon. For us Westerners there is the danger of being manichean, and the feminists have been exploiting this for decades. If we were to accept their wisdom we would all have to write a contract with our wives, specifying how much we owe her for bearing children, preparing breakfast, making the bed, cleaning the home and shopping. We would not be discussing what men should get in return, of course, since men would as providers assume responsability for themselves. That is the sore point with Asian women - even girls richer than men do not share their material wealth with them.
I do know that some women are being badly exploited. In China, some end up being traded like cattle - between their parents and some taker (an old peasant man). BUt there is much worse. In Sudan I was once taken to a brothel by two local business upstarts. You would think there is no brothel in a Muslim society. The men were devout practising Muslims with 2 and 3 wives respectively. They told me they would go to Mecca every year to wash the sin off them.
And the women in the brothel? They were Ethipian refugees, most probably kindapped by Arabs and enslaved!
That's a far cry from the nonchalant attitudes prevailing in East Asia where sex is never linked to sin and punishment!
It simply is a commodity. And as with other commodities, ownership affords power. Have you ever met a woman who despises the exercise of power?

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

Someone wrote "these girls make a business decision to be a prostitute"

very convenient for the conscience of the person using such a service. I would challenge you to do just a little online research. Some items to think about and maybe do a little soul-searching over. Every country, the girls need to be young young young. 20 years old is often over the hill. And that is very conservative. Do you know what age these girls usually start at? If I told you that the average prostitute started when she was 12-13, usually at the manipulation of a trusted family member, who either had sex with her or sold her, would you still say this was a business decision.

Sure, they act as if they are happy doing this...they will get beated and tortured if they don't. In China, the girls that phone you at night, you really believe they are free entrepaneurs?
China ...young people don't have much say about what happens to them. A young Henan girl (14) is kidnapped or sold by her parents, "trained for her occupation. You have heard of the stories of such girls shipped to America in freight boxes, often dying on the way?

It is sad to see what is happening in China. Yes, prostitution used to be legal in China. The movies would give us this heartwrenching story of a beautiful professionally, very talented courtesan. The real story has been documented, brothals where women must sleep with 50 men a day just to have enough food to survive. Any attempts to leave resulting in severe punishment. By the time they are 30 they have the body of a 60 year old women, diseased and crippled. It saddens me that China is gradually creeping back to this way of life.

Go to your classroom, and ask the girls , "how many of you want to be like this" How many of you want your daughter to be like this? Your sister? Your wife? Of course the girl pretends to enjoy having a fat old man slobber all over her. You have been watching too many porno movies.

What is interesting is...go to a girl, talk to her. tell her you would like to take her to dinner, not have sex, but still give her money. Often she will become scared. these are not independent operators. Don't you know that. Such acceptance of kindness will get them severely beaten.

Instead of using them to get your thrills, show love towards them, and see the heartwrenching confusion appear on their face, because they have never known love.

get your head out of the sand. Stop soothing your conscience by comparing them to a women who wants to be married. Admit the truth. They are a piece of meat to be bought and sold...and that is what you want. Some of you want her to ACT scared. Most of you want her to act as if she enjoys what she is doing. And if she doesn't , she will be sverely punished by her boss. No girl can just go to a place on a street, or work in a hotel on her own. This is all controlled. She DOES NOT KEEP THE MONEY. Attempts to hide it will cause her to be beaten tortured. If tat the end of the day she does not produce enough money to please her "boss" her boss will accuse her of holding out, and cause her to be punished...severely. Of course she will be desperate to please you. If someone stuck a cattle rod up your ass, would not you do the same?

MissMolly · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 99 Location: China (USA)

Hear, hear Arioch!!!

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

You have a bleeding heart, CHris, but it is in the wrong part of your body! I have heard such stereotypes enough of my adult life, not to mention even before (my folks hailed from Africa where girls ply this kind of business as freely as Chinese). I wholeheartedly disagree with most of what you say here although I know it is not fundamentally wrong: it merely is wrong quantitatively in that probably the majority of CHinese girls are no victims as you portrayed them!
Yes, I have seen brothels operated by mammasans and other people that control their working girls, but these houses are not safe for you or me! I have seen many more other houses, ordinary dwelling structures, where a girl lives by night while she works at a shop or a hairsalon nearby. What she does in her room (which she might share with a colleague of hers, but not always so!), is her business. Her worst enemies are the police and their informers!
Why do they do this business? Oh yes, to supplement their meagre income. Some have boyfriends, some even husbands and kids. I have seen pictures. Fear in their eyes? NOt in my presence. Feigning friendship or anything? I am not that kind of man that is trying to delude girls or myself... we talked business, and sometimes we strayed into mundane topics such as where does she come from, can she cook, is she happy (the same answers as those I got from office girls: "I am so poor, I want to get a better life, anywhere...").

Now if men had a choice when it comes to working... most of the unskilled men you see have to toil themselves to a premature death, and they have to satisfy their selfish wives on top of that! Ever thought how a Henan day labourer or a peasant can survive in a country where a foreign teacher earns as much in a month as they make in 6 months to one year?
In my opinion, most impoverished women of China fare a lot better than impoverished males!