Job Discussion Forums

[jacqui]

Its all fine and dandy to say free trade is the answer to ending poverty but FAIR trade is the only way that this economic theory can work. Free trade is in actuality the implementation of neo-liberal economic policies, the belief that the globalized economic system will regulate itself so no barriers should exist to trade.
I agree with Julianna that international trade could provide great benefits to the people of Latin America and that perhaps this exposure to international trade will result in a state of relative deprevation. I think, however, its important to recongnize the ill effects of international trade as Guy mentioned. Many Latin American countries are forced to open up thier markets by the IMF and as a result their markets are flooded by foreign goods. When it comes to agriculture, these goods produced in the United States and Canada (along with other countries) are subsidized by their respective governments. The result is campesino's cannot economically compete with these countries because IMF loans generally require that the government must end all subsidies. They are also forced to privatize their industries when if they were nationalized they could benefit the people of the country instead of foreign investors who spend their money in foreign markets. Advocaters of free trade claim privatizing these industries will create jobs resulting in a trickle down effect for the poor population. The problem is... how long are these countries supposed to wait for it to trickle down?? Some of these countries have been opening their markets for over 25 years and it still hasn't happened, meanwhile multi-national corporations are getting rich and paying small salaries with poor working conditions for the jobs they provide.
Meanwhile those that advocate for free trade are saying look! the GDP is rising! what more proof do you need?? this completely ingnores the micro economics, the actual distribution of wealth. (like you said Moon Raven... there are a few very full pockets but the rest seem to have holes)
I agree that the idea of international trade could greatly benefit Latin America, the problem is that unregulated free trade results in the examples given above and end up making a few people rich and the poor even poorer.

[moonraven]

Julieanne: Call me stubborn if you have the need to propagandize our discussion. I prefer to say that I have convictions--and they are based on facts and information--two elements of discourse which have been devalued by the tsunami of media propaganda. If you don't form your opinions based on t.v., what are they based on--bread wrappers? You have never offered any facts or information to support your views, and you have had many opportunities to do so.

Apparently you believe that because Mexico is still predominantly catholic, that it's just fine to eliminate the separation of church and state and give big bucks to reactionary catholic groups. Benito Juarez must be spinning in his grave, baby--he risked his neck in the civil war between liberals and conservatives to break the catholic church's stranglehold on Mexico--they were the largest single landholder and patron of peonage (read slavery) when he finally pushed the reform Laws through. Did it ever cross your mind to ask why there are so many EX-conventos?

From that time until Salinas' sexenio the clergy were kept out of the loop. Why do all roads lead back to Salinas (Crash of 1994, bullet in the brainpan of agriculture, sell out of NAFTA because he thought he would be made president of the WTO, assassinations of friends and foes alike, the narcogobierno fungus, the desafuero of AMLO...)?

Suddenly, with the sexenio of Fox, all the fundamentalist catholic groups have raised their profiles and are feeding at the government trough. That money belongs to the people of Mexico, but Fox and Martita not only serve themselves with the "cuchara grande", they serve groups that promote fundamentalist catholic goals. When I said that this government is even more right wing than the Bush Gang, it was not an idea that I picked out of the air. In the US the Bush Gang would be filtering even more money to fundamentalist christian groups if they could get away with it. In Mexico because there are no functioning institutions (despite Fox's claims to the contrary on CNN last night), and therefore no real restrictions on the government taking money designated for social programs in communities of extreme poverty and giving it to catholic "NGOs".

It seems to be that if you had your way, Mexico would be just a colony of the US--a dumping ground for products past their pull date, obsolete hardware and software--and an open vein of petroleum. Sounds pretty much like the way it is now....

[moonraven]

Free trade agreements are nothing but giving multinational companies (the largest percentage of which are headquartered in the US) a license to steal the resources of less-developed countries in the name of "democracy" and progress.

Or, as Sim�n Bol�var said in 1826: The United States seems destined by Providence to plague America with misery in the name of liberty.�

[moonraven]

Back to the original topic. Here's an opinion piece from today's LJ. One thing I have noticed about this writer is that he has excellent analytical skills and PREDICTIVE abilities.

Domingo 10 de abril de 2005

Guillermo Almeyra

Desafuero: lo conquistado y las hip�tesis (I)
Aunque se llame Rep�blica, este pa�s es en realidad una monarqu�a olig�rquica. Y un pu�ado (pocos centenares) de individuos acaba de demostrar que ha decidido cerrar el camino de las urnas a quien no sea de su agrado, anulando los derechos pol�ticos de m�s de 100 millones de mexicanos.

Se vuelve as� a los tiempos de la relecci�n porfiriana, del dedazo supremo. Pero si se cierra la v�a al cambio pac�fico y electoral, as� como a la alternancia entre distintos candidatos (aunque �stos, como L�pez Obrador, no pongan en peligro el sistema, pero s� los intereses del r�gimen), se impulsa una ruptura abierta entre la sociedad civil y la sociedad pol�tica o aparato estatal (la corrupta justicia, el Ejecutivo, el Legislativo arrastrado).

Eso sucedi� impunemente ya en 1988, cuando robaron la victoria en las urnas a la mayor�a popular que vot� por Cuauht�moc C�rdenas, y el Congreso ratific� con infamia ese despojo, y ahora se presenta la segunda edici�n de una lucha interburguesa (como fue tambi�n la que desencaden� la Revoluci�n Mexicana) que hace intervenir a los convidados de piedra de siempre: los campesinos ind�genas o mestizos, los obreros, los trabajadores, los estudiantes y algunos intelectuales, las clases medias urbanas y rurales m�s pobres.

Como resultado de este acto ilegal y dictatorial, largamente preparado y anunciado, que sienta precedente mundial de un fraude electoral con un a�o de anticipaci�n, perpetrado contra alguien que ni siquiera es candidato y que podr�a ganar, pero tambi�n perder en las urnas, M�xico entra en la hora sudamericana, del masivo "voto en las calles", de las pobladas, del repudio generalizado a las instituciones (incluyendo los partidos). El 7 de abril se constituy� de hecho un frente democr�tico contra la ilegalidad, la prepotencia, la corrupci�n y el fraude que une a los que integraban ya el di�logo nacional (electricistas, telefonistas, trabajadores del Instituto de Seguridad y Servicios Sociales de los Trabajadores del Estado y del Instituto Mexicano del Seguro Social y otros grupos obreros combativos, centrales y organizaciones campesinas, sectores estudiantiles, intelectuales y de la Iglesia) con una gran masa popular hasta ahora dispersa y desmoralizada, pero en proceso de politizaci�n acelerado.

Eso es nuevo y es una gran conquista. En la historia mexicana, el henriquismo fue ferozmente aplastado con la matanza de la Alameda, y la movilizaci�n legal para imponer el triunfo de Cuauht�moc C�rdenas fue reprimida con el asesinato de m�s de 600 militantes y cuadros del Partido de la Revoluci�n Democr�tica (PRD). �Podr� hoy el gobierno foxista imitar a sus antecesores, los verdugos del Partido Revolucionario Institucional al servicio del gran capital? Lo dudo mucho. Ha corrido mucha agua bajo el puente y ah� est�n los ejemplos argentino y boliviano... Adem�s, el general Henr�quez se "borr�" y volvi� al redil gubernamental, y el hijo del Tata C�rdenas tambi�n se "borr�" y se mantuvo en los m�rgenes del sistema, aunque opuesto al r�gimen, mientras L�pez Obrador prefiere ir a la c�rcel, aunque llama a sus defensores a no oponer la violencia a la violencia del r�gimen mon�rquico pripanista que nos desgobierna. Eso plantea varias inc�gnitas:

1. Esa lucha legal, pero de masas, ir�a in crescendo. En abril se suceder�an grandes movilizaciones y paros campesinos-obreros, como los planteados por el di�logo nacional, y aparecer�a un movimiento estudiantil que la direcci�n sectaria (por decir lo menos) de la huelga de la Universidad Nacional Aut�noma de M�xico hab�a desbaratado. El primero de mayo en el Z�calo se reafirmar�a esa alianza obrero-campesina-popular con mucha m�s gente y m�s organizaci�n que la enorme y magn�fica manifestaci�n del 7 de abril, a�n identificada en parte con los derechos de L�pez Obrador, pero que moviliz� casi 400 mil personas. El zapatismo comenzar�a a hacer pol�tica (como lo anunciaba en parte su oposici�n al desafuero de L�pez Obrador, manteniendo su cr�tica a �ste) y participar�a como izquierda en esa alianza, agreg�ndole un programa social (Acuerdos de San Andr�s, derechos ind�genas, soluciones a los problemas de los campesinos, contra el Tratado de Libre Comercio de Am�rica del Norte y el Area de Libre Comercio de las Am�rica, etc�tera) que est� ya en buena parte en las posiciones del di�logo nacional y antes de El campo no aguanta m�s, hasta ahora ninguneados por el Ej�rcito Zapatista de Liberaci�n Nacional.

2. Ante esta situaci�n, el gobierno se asustar�a y buscar�a agravar el encarcelamiento de L�pez Obrador, anulando sus derechos pol�ticos. En el PRD, la direcci�n podr�a oponer al r�gimen la candidatura de Cuauht�moc, pero ahora como vicario de L�pez Obrador, como su representante en la Tierra electoral. El tabasque�o, m�rtir pol�tico, se contentar�a con ir de candidato (perredista o independiente) para el 2012; total, es joven y puede contar con seguridad con el aumento de su prestigio y del desprestigio del PRIAN. O la direcci�n del PRD se asustar�a tanto como el gobierno y llamar�a a desmovilizar, negociando las migajas que le pueda tirar el r�gimen a cambio de su gesto. Las luchas y movilizaciones seguir�an, pero en forma independiente y sin su aval. Un sector de los empresarios, tambi�n asustado, romper�a con los representantes de las exportadoras, las trasnacionales y con los nuevos capitalistas latifundistas. Esa fractura provocada por las movilizaciones de masas estar�a acompa�ada tambi�n por grandes cambios en los sindicatos (los charros estar�an en peligro ante una democratizaci�n) y en las organizaciones campesinas, as� como en los partidos, sobre todo en el �mbito local. (Sigue)

[email protected]

[moonraven]

And an article in English--for those of you who are new to Mexico or who haven't bothered to learn Spanish:

Published on Saturday, April 9, 2005 by CommonDreams.org
Government Removes Popular Presidential Hopeful
Failing Democratic Transition in Mexico

by Laura Carlsen

When Vicente Fox ended the 71-year reign of Mexico�s Institutional Revolutionary Party in the 2000 presidential elections, many observers heralded it as the beginning of a long-overdue transition to democracy. Now President Fox, in a concerted effort with members of the former ruling party, has closed the door on that transition.

By orchestrating a pseudo-legal offensive against Mexico City�s popular mayor, Andr�s Manuel L�pez Obrador, Fox has not only dashed the hopes of Mexicans for a real democracy, but has also destroyed the political capital he gained back in 2000.

Hundreds of thousands of people gathered in Mexico City�s central square to protest Congress�s decision to strip L�pez Obrador of immunity to prosecution granted elected officials. The mayor will now stand trial for allegedly failing to follow a court order to halt work on an access road to a local hospital. According to the federal attorney general�s office, the government will likely put L�pez Obrador behind bars, as a �preventive measure,� before the trial even starts.

According to the vast majority of Mexicans, the government really aims to prevent L�pez Obrador from becoming an official candidate in the 2006 electoral contest. He currently holds a 15% advantage in preference polls.

Although Fox claims that his government�s decision to prosecute is based on legal grounds and that �no-one should be above the law,� the specifics of the case have left few doubts that the prosecution is politically motivated. There is evidence indicating that the Mexico City government was not at fault. Even if it were, it is highly unusual to indict a mayor for infractions by city government officials--much less impeach him based on a minor charge.

In his speech to followers before defending himself in Congress, L�pez Obrador formally declared that he will seek the candidacy of his party, the Party of the Democratic Revolution �from wherever I am.� With his announcement, it became official that the legal persecution of the mayor not only removes a popularly elected official from office but also serves to sideline the opposition frontrunner on a technicality.

The mayor announced the formation of a �broad movement for transformation� to promote not only his defense but also his alternative platform. That platform directly criticizes the government�s economic policies and calls for more social spending and political reforms. L�pez Obrador�s platform of reducing economic inequality--with �First, the Poor� as his slogan--resonates amply in this nation of billionaires and beggars.

He also announced plans to appeal to international human rights groups to fight what he called this �huge step backward for Mexican democracy.� Among the protest crowd in Mexico City�s central plaza, the sense of betrayal by a government elected to usher in the transition to democracy was palpable. Effigies of the president drew boos and whistles. Comments and hand-painted signs supporting Lopez Obrador reflected an unusual mixture of indignation and idolatry, with emotions running high.

It could easily be a volatile mixture. But the mayor�s message to his supporters was to maintain calm and avoid being provoked to violence. �We are the majority,� he told the crowd. �Only those who are in the wrong resort to force.�

What happens next is anyone�s guess. Even the legal implications of the vote are unclear.

What is clear is that President Fox and the country�s ruling parties--PAN and PRI--have plunged the country into political crisis for their own gain. The elections of 2000 offered a promise to consolidate democratic institutions after one-party rule. Some progress had been made. But if the democratic process is manipulated for political ends by those in power, then the promise of transition is betrayed.

Wall Street firms and financial experts had warned Mexican politicians against prosecution of the mayor. No friends of what they see as a populist politician, the main fear is that the maneuver will backfire.

Famed for his austerity and personal integrity, the mantle of political martyr is one that sits well on L�pez Obrador�s shoulders. From prison, his case could burgeon into a symbol of all that�s wrong with Mexico today, greatly enhancing his popularity and his prospects for the presidency.

In a best-case scenario, a real grassroots movement to defend democracy and popular will could lead to long-needed political reforms in Mexico. This will depend on the capacity of the opposition movement to preserve peaceful and democratic means--and on the response of a government whose most recent actions demonstrate irresponsibility and a profound lack of statesmanship.

Laura Carlsen directs the Americas Program of the International Relations Center (IRC), online at www.irc-online.org.

[moonraven]

And an article in English--for those of you who are new to Mexico or who haven't bothered to learn Spanish:

Published on Saturday, April 9, 2005 by CommonDreams.org
Government Removes Popular Presidential Hopeful
Failing Democratic Transition in Mexico

by Laura Carlsen

When Vicente Fox ended the 71-year reign of Mexico�s Institutional Revolutionary Party in the 2000 presidential elections, many observers heralded it as the beginning of a long-overdue transition to democracy. Now President Fox, in a concerted effort with members of the former ruling party, has closed the door on that transition.

By orchestrating a pseudo-legal offensive against Mexico City�s popular mayor, Andr�s Manuel L�pez Obrador, Fox has not only dashed the hopes of Mexicans for a real democracy, but has also destroyed the political capital he gained back in 2000.

Hundreds of thousands of people gathered in Mexico City�s central square to protest Congress�s decision to strip L�pez Obrador of immunity to prosecution granted elected officials. The mayor will now stand trial for allegedly failing to follow a court order to halt work on an access road to a local hospital. According to the federal attorney general�s office, the government will likely put L�pez Obrador behind bars, as a �preventive measure,� before the trial even starts.

According to the vast majority of Mexicans, the government really aims to prevent L�pez Obrador from becoming an official candidate in the 2006 electoral contest. He currently holds a 15% advantage in preference polls.

Although Fox claims that his government�s decision to prosecute is based on legal grounds and that �no-one should be above the law,� the specifics of the case have left few doubts that the prosecution is politically motivated. There is evidence indicating that the Mexico City government was not at fault. Even if it were, it is highly unusual to indict a mayor for infractions by city government officials--much less impeach him based on a minor charge.

In his speech to followers before defending himself in Congress, L�pez Obrador formally declared that he will seek the candidacy of his party, the Party of the Democratic Revolution �from wherever I am.� With his announcement, it became official that the legal persecution of the mayor not only removes a popularly elected official from office but also serves to sideline the opposition frontrunner on a technicality.

The mayor announced the formation of a �broad movement for transformation� to promote not only his defense but also his alternative platform. That platform directly criticizes the government�s economic policies and calls for more social spending and political reforms. L�pez Obrador�s platform of reducing economic inequality--with �First, the Poor� as his slogan--resonates amply in this nation of billionaires and beggars.

He also announced plans to appeal to international human rights groups to fight what he called this �huge step backward for Mexican democracy.� Among the protest crowd in Mexico City�s central plaza, the sense of betrayal by a government elected to usher in the transition to democracy was palpable. Effigies of the president drew boos and whistles. Comments and hand-painted signs supporting Lopez Obrador reflected an unusual mixture of indignation and idolatry, with emotions running high.

It could easily be a volatile mixture. But the mayor�s message to his supporters was to maintain calm and avoid being provoked to violence. �We are the majority,� he told the crowd. �Only those who are in the wrong resort to force.�

What happens next is anyone�s guess. Even the legal implications of the vote are unclear.

What is clear is that President Fox and the country�s ruling parties--PAN and PRI--have plunged the country into political crisis for their own gain. The elections of 2000 offered a promise to consolidate democratic institutions after one-party rule. Some progress had been made. But if the democratic process is manipulated for political ends by those in power, then the promise of transition is betrayed.

Wall Street firms and financial experts had warned Mexican politicians against prosecution of the mayor. No friends of what they see as a populist politician, the main fear is that the maneuver will backfire.

Famed for his austerity and personal integrity, the mantle of political martyr is one that sits well on L�pez Obrador�s shoulders. From prison, his case could burgeon into a symbol of all that�s wrong with Mexico today, greatly enhancing his popularity and his prospects for the presidency.

In a best-case scenario, a real grassroots movement to defend democracy and popular will could lead to long-needed political reforms in Mexico. This will depend on the capacity of the opposition movement to preserve peaceful and democratic means--and on the response of a government whose most recent actions demonstrate irresponsibility and a profound lack of statesmanship.

Laura Carlsen directs the Americas Program of the International Relations Center (IRC), online at www.irc-online.org.

[ls650]

Rather than listening to a bunch of gringos wrangling with their opinions, I'd rather know what my students think.

Most of them tend to be rather apolitical, but the 'desfuerto' struggle seems to have caught the attention of many of them. Whereas most of them couldn't give a toss about left vs. right, they _do_ want to root for an underdog - and this seems to have made LO exactly that.

[moonraven]

Some of those "gringos" have made Mexico their home, and have in fact changed cultures--they're not just passing through.

What happens in Mexico is important to them.

Your flippancy is really repugnant.

[ls650]

I'm not being flippant. Why should any Mexicans care what gringos like you or I think of their politics? It's their country.

You seem to find everyone else on this forum repugnant, so at least I'm in good company!

[moonraven]

Gee, I wonder why I am always asked for my opinion by Mexicans....

Here's an interesting note for those of you who believe that the desafuero of AMLO eliminates his "potential for de-stabilizing the system":

"En la semana previa al juicio de desafuero contra Andr�s Manuel L�pez Obrador, inversionistas extranjeros sacaron del pa�s recursos por al menos 5 mil 100 millones de pesos que ten�an depositados en bonos del gobierno federal, revel� un reporte del Banco de M�xico (BdeM)." (La Jornada, today)

One of the fantasies that Fox has been peddling is that foreign investment is increasing. The guy's nose must be just about reaching Patagonia by now....

Just to follow up on the contrast between what's happening in Mexico and what's happening in Venezuela:

"El director del Banco Central de Venezuela sostuvo que la reactivaci�n de Venezuela ser� la m�s alta de Am�rica Latina y probablemente del mundo, siguiendo un crecimiento sustentado y s�lido que se extender� hasta el pr�ximo a�o." (www.aporrea.org, today)

Investors are standing in line to invest in Venezuela--with a supposedly "populist" neo-socialist president, while investors are pulling their money out of Mexico because the "populist" candidate is being defenestrated.

All of you amateur free market economists got any bread wrapper theories about this?

Let me give you an historical example that has some bearing. When the European Union was being formed, Spain was considered too low-roller, too impoverished by the almost 40 year dictatorship of Franco to become a founding member. Spain is now a member in full standing, and is considered to be a First World country. It made that transition while the Socialist party and Felipe Gonz�lez were in power. (Which just might have something to do with their throwing the right wing PP of Aznar out last year, and putting the Socialists back in....)

[still trying]

It is all fine and wonderful to talk about the state of affairs of Mexico ( I just came back from a teacher's symposium there) but I am getting really tired of you all talking about things that have absolutely nothing to do with ESF oir EFL. I asked about two weeks ago for some ideas for classes for a conversation club for teens..only one person has responded and that was great but I thought that this site about teaching and job experiences for teachers not about your political views! Please! Lets get back to the topic! Thanks Guy for not even responding to the e- mail post I sent. By the way- is everyone having trouble with hotmail. We certainly are.

[Guy Courchesne]

Huh? Email post? Sorry, but I don't remember getting one? Please send it again...

[moonraven]

Hey, still trying:

Reality check time: Nobody on this forum has an OBLIGATION to respond to your questions about how to teach. This forum is for sharing, not expecting folks to be your servant or your TEFL program instructor.

Sometimes our interest in Mexico's socio-political chaos means sharing our ideas, opinions and feelings about that.

If you CONTRIBUTE something to the forum, maybe folks will be more interested in helping you out.

[thelmadatter]

still trying is not way out of line here.

Some off-topic (meaning non-teaching) threads are tolerable, and given the nature of cyberspace, somewhat unavoidable. And heck, they can be quite a diversion, too. However, when the off-topic threads eclipse the basic purpose of the forum, complaints are warranted. That is the reason the moderators had to clamp down on the General Discussion board; the political threads got way out of hand, making it difficult-to-impossible to talk about teaching and living abroad as a teacher.

For those of us here on the Mexico board, its in our best interest to practice a bit of self-restraint, so that we don't have to have the moderators dictate what can and can't be said here.

Asking for teaching ideas IS one of the purposes of this forum. I dont read that still trying wants anyone to be a servant.

[still trying]

Thank you for your comments, and I would like to say that although I have been teaching ESL/EFL for 9 years, I have not taught teens extensively and am grateful for any help because first and foremost, I want to be good at what I do and have the best classes possible whether I am teaching teens or adults. The sites that were recommended to me are very useful and I am hoping that when the conversation club starts it will be what they want. I also passed on a couple of ideas using sitcoms/video and some other conversational situations to dangermouse that I hope will be useful. If you are interested you can e-mail me. By the way.."teacher planet" has just opened up their ESL page and as I have used them a fair amount in the past I am hoping that this will also serve as a good resourse for us teachers.