Job Discussion Forums

[moonraven]

I don't know you at all. This is a virtual space, after all. What we have to go on here is behavior on this site and self-reports of other behavior.

No one is forcing you to use songs in class, and your snide insinuation that one has to be a former flower child to use them is a bit off target--especially given that no one on this site has said that he or she was a flower child. (I assume that because Ben Round and I are in that age group, that you choose to write off anything we say as no longer viable?)

You have not given any information on this thread to indicate WHY songs would not be great for your classes. You said you tried songs many times--with the same results--but you do not tell us what those results were, only that for you, it was like pulling teeth.

Perhaps if we had been given more specific information we would either a) agree with you that using songs will not work in your classes due to cultural or other factors or b) be able to give you some options that WOULD work--based on our own experience, which appears to be considerable, given that many of us use songs regularly and successfully.

[Sweetsee]

Hello there MR,

I was pleasantly surprised to find your reply because it never made it to my mailbox, just happened across it.

First, don't know why you said I made an insinuation, and snide to boot? I was stating a fact. My teacher's name was Mrs. Dovgin and her husband was also a teacher at our school. Whether or not she was a flower child I do not know but she was very chilled and I liked her a lot.

Why songs didn't/don't work for me:

Okay, let's say that one day I decide to do a song lesson. I choose a song. I que the tape. I prepare material with the words printed on it, perhaps some blanks--whatever.

You know what? It just sucks, it turns out to be just a wasted lesson. I can almost tolerate the look of disinterested students in class but when I try to do something like show a film or songs, something other than the ususal lesson, and they are sleeping or chattering or just geeking it big time, I think the heck with it.

I once asked a student to give me a song they all liked, rather than a Beatle's tune or some cheesy karaoke song. I figured that if it was a song of their choosing they would all be eager. Yeah, right! Same thing, and I just figured why should I?

It is time for me to bail home but let me just leave you with a song that I am thinking to do with my students:

Hip hop baby coming around.
Flying to the moon and back making the sound,
spreading the religion and spreading the soul,
gotta get it moving 'cos I'm on a role.
Feeling overconfident and making a scene,
with your blue shock eyes and your tamborine,
'coz you started something that I can't believe.

Hazy days at the back of my mind,
Losing time with pleasure to find,
gotta keep on moving 'cos I'm out of my way,
when the grass is greener I'm here to stay.
Pack your bags, we're leaving this place,
with a whole lot of money and a smile on my face,
'cos you started something I just can't believe.

Take me on a coaster, take me for a ride,
take me somewhere good, somewhere generally alive,
take me to a pleasure beach where I can play,
gotta keep it moving 'cos I'm on my way.
Feeling over curious I can't complain,
with my heart and my head and the people saying,
that we started something we just can't believe.


Enjoy yourself,
s

[dmb]

Can't we just agree that songs work for some teachers/students and not for others? different teaching/learning styles and all that.

[Sweetsee]

I'm with you.

[Glenski]

Sweetsee,
You have filled this forum with stories about your badly behaved students and poor management of classes, so it is hard for anyone to get a grasp of what is the major problem in your class. That is, what we can solve.

Secondly, you wrote:

[Sweetsee]

Hi Glenski,


Forever the optimist and always with words of encouragement.

You know what? I have given up trying to teach anything and just go into the lesson and rap with whoever is up for it.

What do you think about that?

[sheeba]

I've found songs pretty much a waste of time in China . The listening level of Uni students here is poor and apart from that many of the students have no interest in western music. I'd like to use songs though . I may give it another blast . On previous attempts I only used the songs for one lesson . I guess songs really need to be repeated lesson after lesson for the melody to start sinking in. The kids I teach need repeated exposure to the nursery rhymes I teach them. I imagine this would be the same with my adults?
Also Isn't Music somewhat a personal thing ? One person's idea of a great melody is different from another - So half my class may love my Country tunes while the other may just be sitting their cringing !

[dmb]

Glenski, do you agree that sometimes songs work and sometimes they don't? I have used (the same) songs many times and sometimes they have worked and sometimes they haven't. When they haven't worked I have tried to work out why they didn't work. Was it in the set up, the presentation, quality of the tape/CD, the materials, time of day... In reflection the only thing I could think of was that the students just weren't into songs. I suppose this crosses over into aspects of teaching. You do your favourite grammar presentation which every student loves and understands..... but then it doesn't Why?

[Sweetsee]

Good point Sheeba,

Ummm...reckon I'd be in the latter group! So true what you said about the personal nature of music.

I think the big let down for me was the realization that a song very close to my heart was met with such indifference.

Btw, I play chill-out in all my lessons.


Enjoy yourself,
s

[Sweetsee]

Hi DMB,

Wow, your number of posts is catching up to Glenski!

[dmb]

I really ought to get back to work.

[sheeba]

Thanks Sweetsie

My personal love is' Beth Orton' . Her voice is beautiful but you just don't want to hear me sing like a woman !!! I am male by the way - Sheeba was a well loved family ALsation dog that passed away.

Chill out - Good way to relax you and your students !!! I tried drum and bass after my students just didn't get lyrics. There is a lot of culture behind non lyrical music that I think can be taught too!

I'm gonna try and bring the guitar in and get them to make a song - Who knows !!!!

[Sweetsee]

Hi Sheeba,

You are so welcome. I so love the rare occasions when I see my name and something nice with it, honestly.

I was thinking the same thing, the guitar. Then, I thought if it was bombing I would be devastated.


Enjoy,
s

[moonraven]

Sweetsee:

My opinion--and this is not to insult you or flame you--is that the problem is not your students. I think the problem is you.

When I present a song in class, I do NOT just slap something together--the "whatever" that you referred to--and toss it out there expecting applause from the students.

Everything fits together when I use a song in class. The warm-up introduces the theme, and very possibly even elicits some of the vocabulary which I will present from the song. After presenting that vocabulary, the vocabulary reinforcement activity fits with the song's theme. Students are then ready to work with the song in a number of ways--frequently using a cloze exercise like what you mentioned ("some blanks"--only not haphazardly like you appeared to do, but with about 50% of the missing words being common vocabulary and the other 50% being the new vocabulary). After 3 repetitions of the song, if it's a cloze exercise they have been doing, they read out the lyrics--or take turns putting the missing words on the board. Then we sing the song. (Students in Latin America love music and usually would like to sing the song more than once.) Using the energy generated from singing, they do a couple of follow-up activities, which might be small groups discussing whether they agree with the point of view expressed in the song and why--which they then present--and then a writing activity which relates to the song's them as well as to their own experience.

I have NEVER--and I have been doing this for more than 10 years--had a less-than-enthusiastic response to working with songs in class.

The reason I think the problem is YOU is reflected in your attitude in expressing yourself in this thread--it's negative ("it just sucks"), unenthusiastic ("whatever"). With an attitude like that, can you seriously expect students to be anything but disinterested in your classes? If you aren't interested in what you are presenting, they aren't going to be interested either. And students sleeping in class (!!!???); I cannot even imagine that. My students are busy every moment in class--and because I use a cooperative learning model, a student whose eyes started to close would be given the elbow by one of his teammates so fast that his eyes would probably lock permanently into the open position.

What I am "hearing" from you is the "voice" of someone who is either really burned out on teaching, or who chose teaching not because she felt passionate about teaching, but because she didn't know what else to do.

I do not know you, but I am really concerned when I "hear" flat affect, negativity towards students and towards one's own teaching. Using songs in class will not change that for you. You need to sit down with someone whom you trust and ask for some guidance.

[Stephen Jones]